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View Full Version : Good Trend or Bad?



bfisher
12-01-2010, 10:44 AM
Most of you guys on here have some experience so this is aimed at newer shooters as well as you. We all notice that the price of bows has been escalating in recent years. Technology costs money.

What bothers me some is how many new or less experienced shooters these days are buying bows that cost $700 or more. I know, to each his own, but it makes me wonder who is giving these guys advice or what they are thinking.

I'm talking mainly about people who have no clue about even how to install a nocking point on a string, how to adjust the draw weight, or even move a peep so it aligns with their eye. Simple things.

There are so many bows on the market that cost so much less and would be, IMO, a much better choice for beginners in the event they don't like archery (what's not to like?) or are only going to shoot or hunt once in a while. I just think it's a shame to see many waste good money on a top-o-the-line bow when they could get a complete setup for less and move up as their skills and knowledge progress over the years.

This is just my thought of course. I come into contact with a lot of newer shooters and am always being asked advice about this or that. I do a lot of informal coaching and tuning, but this is one issue that burns into my soul a bit, although I usually keep my mouth shut (yes, I can do this) about it unless asked.

What are some of your thoughts.

Barry

Hutch~n~Son Archery
12-01-2010, 10:59 AM
Agreed Barry, when my son (Arrow Splitter) and I started years ago. He started on an inexpensive youth bow and I on a used bow. The Martin pro shop owner respected me because we didn't go spend all outdoors just to start off. Especially when we didn't even know if we are going to like it. Now years later we are all a Martin family. Reason for us is we learned a lot before we bought new. Now I have to say when I recommend people to buy, it is when I teach them something first. And most of the customers we have walk a way with a greater understanding.

joelc
12-01-2010, 11:56 AM
My personal opinion is that most new archers tend to overpay and overbow themselves into the ultra-fast high performance bows simply because thier buddy does, the shop wants to sell a high dollar bow or a magazine tells them that they have to. I recommend the Martin Cheetah (now the Exile) more than any other bow because it is reliable, easy to tune, plenty fast, easy to shoot and the cost is much less than comparible bows on the market.

alex
12-01-2010, 11:59 AM
I think nowadays everything made in Europe or America is overpriced and that's why China will kick our ..... pretty soon. My favourite example is the B2 Spirit which costs 2 billion $!!! I've recently heard about an average 100 square metres apartment in Tokyo for 5 million $. Well, a bow for 1000$ isn't that shocking, but still...
I've dreamed about a compound bow since i was a child (to be honest after watching "Rambo 3" :o ) and was sure that i'll like shooting it. I had some simple wooden bows made by my grandfathers and by me and wasn't completely new to archery when i first got the chance to take a compound. But i did not buy the most expensive one - started with a relatively cheap Golden Eagle Brave. It was too short for me, but still gave me an idea of compound bow shooting. Then i bought a 55# Perfect Line and tree months later, after positive comments from this forum (from Bfisher and Flytier as far as i remember) i took the MOAB. It was 700$ which is quite a lot for Bulgaria (my salary was 200$ per month then) but i don't regret it. If the US bow prices were close to those of the Taiwanese ones i surely would have 10 already :D

Money Man
12-01-2010, 12:23 PM
I am one of the newer archers on here. Just picked up an older bow from my buddy when he upgraded. First thing I wanted to do was learn to shoot it. So far that has worked. Before I get too crazy spending money, I want someone who knows what they are doing to look at how I shoot and see where I am doing things wrong. Then I want to figure out how to take these things apart, replace or repair, and put them back together and tune them so I don't have to drive to a shop to pay someone else to do something I believe I can figure out on my own.
For years I have been shooting deer with $300 guns, so I realize you don't have to pay top dollar for equipment. Unless you can out shoot your equipment, you will never know how good that super pricey next best thing could be.
I also don't believe in scent control clothing, shooting from trees, and most camo. I think if you do your homework and find where the deer are, you sit down and wait for them to come by. My most important things are staying warm to sit until whenever the deer come, not moving too much, and believing in my equipment. Of course now I am moving in a whole new direction. Thanks for listening.

Dave

SonnyThomas
12-01-2010, 01:16 PM
I agree that a lot of new shooters are in the "monkey see, monkey do" way of things. Their buddies have a Mathews or a Hoyt or a Bowtech something or other and have to have the same. How do you beat it? For the most part you can't. We or the vast majority of shops can't have a bow laying around that can fit everyone. I think I have 2 or 3 bows at the shop that most older kids and women can handle, but they aren't the big names they see.

About a month ago I had this young man come ine and he had only so much money. I had him try a 45/60 Bengal, shoot it on our indoor range. So I gave a discount to help things along. Last I heard from his buddy the young man was in love with the Bengal.

So I looked in the back room. We have lots of older new bows still in the package. I found one brand new 20 year old (?) Martin that maxed at 50 pounds. I'm fixing it up now. Wash job and new string, it looks pretty good. I'll keep it around for someone to plunk some arrows down range.

We had one of the NASP bows laying around and that proved about worthless. No one wanted a kid's bow, no sights, low poundage and such. I think the boss ended up giving to some school.

Stéphane
12-01-2010, 03:54 PM
Hi my name is Stéphane and I'm an archoholic. I got my dad's 20 year-old bow and one of the limb began to delaminate. So, I started the process to buy a new one.

My pro shop wanted to sell me a $700 bow (not a Martin) - ready to shoot.

This is when I realised that I needed to do some research and to get what I needed instead of what the guy needed to get off his shelf.

I ended up buying a 2010 Martin Bengal for $399 Cdn. Even with all the accessories, it will end up being cheaper. Further more, I will have better quality accessories than the package bow I was offered.

I think, and this is just my opinion, that there are 2 major reasons for the trend, and I think both are bad.

#1: Archery shops want to unload what they have in the shop before the order a well suited bow for a potential customer.
#2: New archers maybe led to believe that an expensive bow will override their flaws.


One last lesser reason could be this one: Buy nice, or buy twice. Could be misguided, but better than the first 2.

Ehunter
12-01-2010, 04:05 PM
I started off on an old Browning "Cobra" Wood riser, laminated wood limb compound. No holes for a sight, just a cushion plunger hole. I shot that for many years, until I got the basics down pretty well. Then over the years, I have upgraded to better and better bows as my talent grew. That first bow maxed out at 46 pounds, now I am shooting 68.
I think advertising, and "manliness" are the two biggest contributors to overbuying in most things. Gotta have a 3mpg "go anywhere" SUV with 800 horses, those same people have to have a $1500 bow. Like the guy braggin about his Bentley toa farmer. "I've got this $150,000 car, and drive it everyday!" Farmer says "I've got this $300,000 combine, and only drive it a month a year."

Money Man
12-01-2010, 05:04 PM
@ ehunter, don't forget the folks that need to buy a 5000 sq foot house that they can only afford it, if both are working, so 2 people end up living in the house because they can't stop working to have kids, or afford daycare if they do. So what do 2 people do with 6 bedrooms and 3 living rooms? I have only figured out how to occupy one couch at a time.

Rangerj
12-01-2010, 05:26 PM
In my area most everyone has to have a Mathews or Hoyt and they spend a lot for them. I have 2 Martins, a 2010 Cheetah and a 2010 Tr2 Firecat. I have both of these excellent bows all set up close to the price of one of the others.I don't follow the hype with all the marketing. I bought Martin because a friend has had one for 20 years, and dropped 20 feet from a tree twice with no damage.And the reputation of the company.To me these bows shoot as good as any others, I am the problem LOL

justin
12-01-2010, 05:58 PM
i agree with joel....... cheetahs/exile rock.... and as a new archer price point sold it, and it shoots amazing!!! then i bought a rytera, and i still dont want to get rid of my cheetah!!

elkslayer4x5
12-01-2010, 10:44 PM
I'm constantly amazed at the number of bows some guys go thru in a year, although I'm sure glad that they do. Sure makes a fast turnover for the used bow market. After I had shoulder surgery to repair a torn rotator cuff and remove a bone spur, I was'nt all that sure that I could still draw a bow, the year before I gave my son my Darton Fury recurve, because I could'nt draw it any longer. So did'nt want to put a lot into a 'new fangled bow like gizmo'. Did a lot of reading of archery boards, picked a bow with the fewest problems and complaints, and have been happy ever since, soon got another, set one up to hunt and the other for 3D and field, all for less than a grand, including arrows. I knew going in that there where no pro shops anywhere near me, ( 3-4 hours north of San Francisco ) so this board was my pro shop, with the advice I got here, I was soon destroying arrows. A year later I was bowhunting again, Thanks guys. :cool:

Rangerj
12-02-2010, 06:04 AM
Elkslayer,How long was your recovery after surgery? I may have to have shoulder surgery as was wondering.Thanks

elkslayer4x5
12-02-2010, 07:11 AM
Suprizingly short time, would have been quicker had I worked harder during therapy. But after five-six years of dealing with a bone spur, I was really cautious. And then it took almost 3 months of sorting thru all the fan boy input to find a dependable bow, while I rebuilt the muscle mass. Bought a used 60# 06 Martin Slayer with nitrous C cams and the x system, and had no trouble drawing it the first time, can't say as much my first experience with the release. :eek:
But if you listen to your theropist, you''ll be shooting within a month. :)

RLW
12-02-2010, 07:44 AM
I was reading thru hunting magazines I get the other day, North American Hunter, NRA's American Hunter and Bowhunter Magazine, and started paying attention to the bows ads and bows shown in many articles. Seems like the vast majority were showing Mathews, followed by Hoyt, plus the occasional PSE or Bowtech/Diamond (popular around here)....did see a Martin mentioned once recently outside of the nice Laura Ads on the back of Bowhunter.

Pick up about any main stream outdoor magazine or watch some of the hunting shows on TV and it's the same bows, this is all they see. A lot of advertising and/or sponsorships, giving new guys the impression this is what everybody successful is using. Just like you need to wear Nike shoes to be able to run fast or jump high.

Add to that, $300 bow might list an IBO of "only" 280-300fps, where as the $700+ bow might claim it shoots a super fast 330-340fps with the some what false general perception out there, that cheaper bows shooting 280-300fps is like throwing sticks, while higher-tech, higher dollar bows showing 330-340fps is close to being as flat as bullets.





I started off on an old Browning "Cobra" Wood riser, laminated wood limb compound..........."
My first compound was a Browning Cobra, a 50lb lefty model. Shot a screaming 190fps.......hey, it was over 10fps faster than my recurve, and only had to hold half the weight.

ElkSlayer
12-02-2010, 09:34 AM
have to agree with sonny...IT is keep up with the jones.. I shoot the same bow i bought back in 2000 and the used cougar III . see no need to spend 700+ on a new whatever...thou I realy want a new rytera.
If a newbe walks in to one of our local shops he will be met in one of two ways depending on the shop.
1st one ( old shop) will let them look and answer any question they ask ,make sujestions if they ask for them. low pressure then once they deside it's all about getting them up an shootin on his range
2nd one also old shop But a in new building.. now once the newbe waves a credit card at them they are all over it.tell you have to shoot a **** or ******* even thou they deal with more then 2 bow companys. for instance my son in law took his wealthy cousin in to shop2 late this summer to outfit him for up comming bow season...$1700 latter he had a new rig and extras with dozen arrows and 3 BH..:eek:
any one care to take a guess at what he bought brand **** :rolleyes:or ******* :rolleyes:

bfisher
12-02-2010, 03:07 PM
My guess would be that it begins with a B, an H, or the other M.

justin
12-02-2010, 03:59 PM
lol martin prolly is the other m :D

ElkSlayer
12-02-2010, 04:16 PM
well that B would be a 3rd shop just up the road next to the mfg plant.. this is oregon :D but yea you have the right letters.;) guy about puked :eek: when I showed him my cougar III and told him what we gave for it along with the arrows I picked up on clearance sale & fletched my self, toped off with the used HHA.. total pakage dirt cheep..
BTW cam timing has been fixed, it was over rotated in this pic... thanks to copterdoc ;) (for the fix)

Rangerj
12-02-2010, 06:22 PM
Suprizingly short time, would have been quicker had I worked harder during therapy. But after five-six years of dealing with a bone spur, I was really cautious. And then it took almost 3 months of sorting thru all the fan boy input to find a dependable bow, while I rebuilt the muscle mass. Bought a used 60# 06 Martin Slayer with nitrous C cams and the x system, and had no trouble drawing it the first time, can't say as much my first experience with the release. :eek:
But if you listen to your theropist, you''ll be shooting within a month. :)

Thank you sir for your reply>

bfisher
12-02-2010, 06:58 PM
lol martin prolly is the other m :D

NO, I was thinking Mathews. Martin is THE bow. Mathews is the other M bow.

justin
12-02-2010, 07:53 PM
:D yeah i know!!! i was trying to be funny!!

ElkSlayer
12-02-2010, 10:12 PM
you wont pay 1700 for a martin unless you're outfitting a whole hunting camp..barry would win the prize if there was one :D:D...lol

Ehunter
12-03-2010, 03:04 AM
Maybe Martin should advertise as "The Original "M" Brand Bow"..... I used to shoot a Mathews, but I'll never go back to them after shooting Martin. Yes, I was a sucker for the advertising once.....bad me...shame shame....

spekwa66
02-24-2011, 08:22 AM
I know this post is old, and you'll probably want to shoot me for this question. But, what is so wrong with the "B" Bow? I shot a bear bow when I 1st started shooting. It was an old Black Panther. I never had any issues with it, and upgraded to the Cougar Elite. But, why such a bad taste in the mouths on this post?

SonnyThomas
02-24-2011, 11:47 AM
I know this post is old, and you'll probably want to shoot me for this question. But, what is so wrong with the "B" Bow? I shot a bear bow when I 1st started shooting. It was an old Black Panther. I never had any issues with it, and upgraded to the Cougar Elite. But, why such a bad taste in the mouths on this post?

The "B" spoke of probably was Bowtech, not Bear. Still, there wasn't so much "bad mouthing" of bows as there was of cost. And it is aggravating, trying to get some one new to archery involved when the cost can be outrageous.

bigredhunter00
02-24-2011, 12:05 PM
Wife and I both bought 2010 Bengals from The Bow Depot in northern Colorado. The shop owner Doug wasn't pushy about what brand for us to buy. He showed us matching Bengals and we decided that they were comfortable and his words were "they make an excellent beginner bow." So we ended up buying them and have truely enjoyed having them. Over this past year of owning them, our shooting skills have improved greatly and we are extremely happy for buying them. One our biggest reasons for buying new and not used was warrenty, but at the price we bought them for, the bows were still cheaper then the quest and pses he had for sale.

SonnyThomas
02-24-2011, 12:24 PM
Wife and I both bought 2010 Bengals .

Good choice. Of the ones I've set up and owners shooting the Bengal is one darn good bow for the cost. I could say more bow than what the cost reflects.

spekwa66
02-24-2011, 12:30 PM
The "B" spoke of probably was Bowtech, not Bear. Still, there wasn't so much "bad mouthing" of bows as there was of cost. And it is aggravating, trying to get some one new to archery involved when the cost can be outrageous.

I apologize. I read fast and saw the **** and kept reading and saw the B. Now I realize my mistake. Archery can get expensive, but it doesn't have to be. If they want to spend that kind of money, its their fault. I'll shoot what I can afford, and shoot it great!

Simple Life
02-24-2011, 12:50 PM
I think alot of new archers get turned off the sport when they purchase
some of the most unforgiving bows made and wonder why they can't hit anything,and end frustrated and give up on it.Only good thing is you see alot of good deals on barely used bows.

HawgEnvy
02-24-2011, 03:23 PM
heres how I get my bows.
Browning Tornado-new $489 bare
paid $140 after employee discount,sales,promotional
traded it in on an NEW '04 Jennings Rackmaster,ended up paying $150 after trade-in and model year close out. Was $475 originally. Shot it for 6yrs before pursuing other hobbies. I found a Martin Jag w fusion cam at the pawn shop priced at $75. I walked with it for $60! Then I traded an old bolt action .22 for an Alpine Impact Extreme RTS. Traded another gun for an '02 Hoyt Protech,traded the Hoyt for an '05 PSE Primos STL,traded the PSE for a '10 Martin Cheetah RTS,traded some old tires for my Cougar 3 mag w nitrous cams RTS(Toxonics target sight prong rest,just shy of 3doz arrows),and last weekend I picked up a Hoyt Alphamax 35 for $500. But get this. My ex-wife offered to buy it for me for watching her 2 and 5yr old daughters so she could go to the superbowl party. Lol.

so I have the Hoyt,the Cougar 3,and the Cheetah that I shoot regular. Traded the Jaguar,and gave the Jennings and the Alpine to my Bro-in-law to get him back into bowhunting. My first bow was a PSE F2 Maxis that I traded my electric guitar for in high school.

Atavio
02-25-2011, 04:01 AM
Started with a $75. bow from Wallmart, figured it was a way to get the feel of archery without taking a loss if I didn't find it interesting enough. Been through 2 used bows from ebay over the past 10 years, both less than $300 each. After 10 years in Archery and for the first time, I bought a brand new bow; Shadowcat 2011. Does the bow cost a lot? Yes. But, sold a PSG G-Force on ebay to pay for 1/2 of the Shadowcat, so it was not too bad.

Yeah, bow prices are too high. Then with accessories and necessities the price grows. For responsible and paitent archers, a good bow will last +10 years though. So, worth it or not? Well, depends on how much someone likes archery or bow hunting, and thether they plan to make it a lasting endeavor. Aside from rock climbing, archery is my only other thing. Looking at 10 years of both activities, I have sent just under $2,000. in 10 years for archery bows/accessories and rock climbing gear. So, over 5-10 years, a good bow purchase costs less than the amount of money the average person spends on beer. So, yes it's worth it if you like the bow enough. But a smart idea to buy a cheap bow and arrows to play around with for a while before making an investment on something expensive and high-tech.

elkslayer4x5
02-26-2011, 08:51 AM
Oh Lovely! :rolleyes: