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View Full Version : Single Cam or Dual cam, which do you guys prefer?



Arrow Splitter
12-15-2010, 01:55 PM
I've shot both, and I have to say that the dual cam I had (PSE The BEAST) was more of pain to tune, even though when it was tuned correctly it shot very well. Right now I'd have to say that I prefer single cam, but I'll know better when I've used a newer dual cam( I'd like to get the Silencer or the Firecat 400).

Hutch~n~Son Archery
12-15-2010, 02:07 PM
I like the single cam for the ease of tuning. I would buy a dual cam for target. Both should be another choice.:rolleyes:
Hutch

justin
12-15-2010, 02:13 PM
lol i picked dual... yeah harder to tune, but worth the performance. if i shot for hunting only or ocasionally, id stick with the single, due to the easy factor.

Spiker
12-15-2010, 02:41 PM
I've shot both, and I have to say that the dual cam I had (PSE The BEAST) was more of pain to tune, even though when it was tuned correctly it shot very well. Right now I'd have to say that I prefer single cam, but I'll know better when I've used a newer dual cam( I'd like to get the Silencer or the Firecat 400).

Martins C.A.T and NITRO cams and the Rytera Hybrix are not true dual cams.

Arrow Splitter
12-15-2010, 03:45 PM
Martins C.A.T and NITRO cams and the Rytera Hybrix are not true dual cams.

Thanks for the info Spiker. I didn't realize that.

Simple Life
12-15-2010, 03:45 PM
Single.I have been on the fence about my next bow being a dual or single.
For the hunting I do max 25yd,I just don't know ,the singles are a little easier to tune.Only time well tell I guess.:confused:

SonnyThomas
12-15-2010, 05:36 PM
I could live quite happy (and do) with single cam. I still use one for hunting and once so often get out my Old War Horse with single cam. I've told of it in another reply, but again, my Ole War Horse has placed and won more than all my dual cams bows put together.
I've probably owned every single cam UltraTec Hoyt made from 1999 thru 2002. I owned UltraTecs with Command Cams and Cam & 1/2 up thru 2006. This last year I picked up a Martin Shadowcat and haven't looked back, but the Catcams are pretty aggressive and have a fair hump/bump at the end of the draw cycle. The Shadowcat is another of the most accurate bows I've ever owned.

bowgramp59
12-15-2010, 06:18 PM
since the coming of the alien x my prefrance is dual cams,they are a little of a pain to tune but when you do get them tuned they are fast, acurate, and smooth and imo the best looking bows out there. i got the new onza 3 today, it is one sharp bow. i got it all set up but it got dark before i could shoot it.i will check that out in the morning.

Montalaar
12-15-2010, 10:51 PM
My preference is with true dual cams as the Nitrous Cam for e.g..
But as nearly all manufacturers do not offer true dual cams i will stick to hybrid cams...

NeilM
12-15-2010, 10:53 PM
As a finger shooter I prefer dual cam, when I shoot release I like single.

I find that due to my style of shooting, dual cams really suit me well and I get the best accuracy from them, I find single cam bows just a little too 'soft' and I'm always a little inconsistent.

My release style is completely different and so I can live with the soft feel of the single cam and get some great accuracy.

alex
12-16-2010, 01:55 AM
Well, i like my single cam MOAB and can't say about the duals (have an older style compound with 2 round cams, but don't know whether it is a "dual") When i was choosing my bow i've tried a Firecat but back then i couldn't handle it. May be now when i have a little more experience i'll like the hybrid cams better.

Ehunter
12-16-2010, 02:13 AM
I have 3 single cams, and 2 Hybrid. For me, I'm more accurate with the Hybrids. More of a pain to tune, but the pay off is better. Just a better "feel" to the Cat cams. The added speed isn't bad either. lol

Simple Life
12-16-2010, 11:30 AM
Since I have never owned a dual cam,is there alot to keeping them in tune?
I really don't need a speed bow,so would it be worth it?

Arrow Splitter
12-16-2010, 12:22 PM
Since I have never owned a dual cam,is there alot to keeping them in tune?
I really don't need a speed bow,so would it be worth it?

The only real pain (on my PSE anyway) was the cam timing. Once both cams came around at the same time, the rest of the tuning was no different than a single cam bow. So there really isn't a lot to it, you just have to have patience to get the cam timing. In my opinion, a dual cam is definitely worth it(as I said in the beginning post, I only prefer single cam because I haven't owned a newer dual cam or hybrid cam).

ElkSlayer
12-17-2010, 03:01 PM
single cam & hybrid cams... tuning is not an issue..over/under rotating is.. but i have since gotten a handle on that..maybe:rolleyes:

Simple Life
12-18-2010, 05:23 AM
The only real pain (on my PSE anyway) was the cam timing. Once both cams came around at the same time, the rest of the tuning was no different than a single cam bow. So there really isn't a lot to it, you just have to have patience to get the cam timing. In my opinion, a dual cam is definitely worth it(as I said in the beginning post, I only prefer single cam because I haven't owned a newer dual cam or hybrid cam).

Think I will stay with a single cam this spring.Broad head tuning gave me fits last year:mad:,think I will keep it simple for my new bow.Thks for your input

justin
12-18-2010, 06:39 AM
Martins C.A.T and NITRO cams and the Rytera Hybrix are not true dual cams.

ummmm......my hybrix cams on my X look exactly the same, outside of the drawstop on my lower cam. they bolth play out cable and take in cable the same on the top and bottom, and the cams themselves are the same... are u sure hybrix isnt a dual cam?

Hutch~n~Son Archery
12-18-2010, 08:22 AM
ummmm......my hybrix cams on my X look exactly the same, outside of the drawstop on my lower cam. they bolth play out cable and take in cable the same on the top and bottom, and the cams themselves are the same... are u sure hybrix isnt a dual cam?

Justin,
"Hybrid cam systems: You can think of hybrid cams as a mix of single-cam and two-cam technology. They do about the same thing as a single-cam bow. In other words, because the top cam is attached directly to the bottom cam (the top cam is called the slave and the bottom cam is called the master) these systems are less sensitive to power cable stretch. When the power cable stretches, both cams move instead of just one as is the case of the two-cam bow. Therefore, hybrid cams are more reliable than two-cam bows because they are much less sensitive to timing issues.

Hybrid cams are supposed to make it easier to attain a perfectly level nock travel back and forward. This is important for good arrow flight. Not all bows produce perfect nock travel. That means that some bows are easier to tune than others are and some canít be tuned at all. Iíll dig into the important subject of nock travel in the next chapter.

It is debatable whether the hybrid has any tuning advantages over a well-made single-cam. This system is certainly better than poorly made single-cams that I have shot. I have endured some amazingly bad arrow flight from single-cam bows whose cams were not properly designed for all draw lengths. I think if these poorly made single-cams had been effectively policed off the market by some licensing agreement, the hybrid never would have gained traction Instead, people began blaming all single-cams for the problems of only a few.

Regardless of why it became popular, the hybrid is now a big part of the bow landscape. Most bow companies have some form of hybrid cam".

Hutch~n~Son Archery
12-18-2010, 08:31 AM
Modified hybrid cam systems: Modified hybrids are the newest style on the market. Some companies call them binary cams. The top and bottom cams are mirror images of each other. Rather than the harness attaching to the opposite limb tip, it attaches to the opposite cam. In this way, the cams are slaved together just as they are with a standard hybrid cam, but the harness tracks and string payout tracks are identical on top and bottom making it very easy to produce level nock travel.

The biggest difference between the hybrid and the modified hybrid cam is the fact that there is no set slave and master. It changes depending on the lengths of the harnesses. All that matters is the fact that the cams are linked together so they canít change rotation independently and go out of time.

To summarize, I donít recommend a two-cam bow. There is not enough to gain from that design that it is worth the nagging problem of always having to check cam timing. Select a single-cam, a hybrid cam or a modified hybrid cam style. However, just to be on the safe side, donít walk out of the archery shop until you know that the bow you have selected can be tuned.

copterdoc
12-18-2010, 01:53 PM
..... are u sure hybrix isnt a dual cam?
Ummmmmm, yes!

I am certain that Martin no longer offers any dual cam option on their current bows.

They have singles and Binaries, only.

A hybrid cam is completely different from either one, and the "Hybrix" cam is a brand name, not a cam type.

Montalaar
12-18-2010, 10:59 PM
Ummmmmm, yes!

I am certain that Martin no longer offers any dual cam option on their current bows.

They have singles and Binaries, only.

A hybrid cam is completely different from either one, and the "Hybrix" cam is a brand name, not a cam type.

I agree. And the Nitro is not a Nitrous either. :(

bowgramp59
12-19-2010, 10:55 AM
i thought a dual cam bow was a bow with a cam on each end of the bow and a single cam bow is 1 cam with an idler wheel. please explain a dual cam bow.

copterdoc
12-19-2010, 11:33 AM
The simplest explanation is, that a dual cam uses a split yoke to anchor one end of the cable to the axle. A "Slaved Binary Cam" anchors one end of the cable to the opposite cam, and it runs on a reverse track, that feeds out cable as the bow is drawn back.

This reverse feed, prevents the cable from going slack, if one cam is pulled "harder" than the other.

The only exception, is the Bowtech Overdrive Binary cam. It uses a split yoke cable, anchored to a "crankshaft" that keeps the cams "slaved", for the last half of the draw.

Spiker
12-19-2010, 02:27 PM
- Not sure where I got this from.
It may be something that Copterdoc posted somewhere else here, or on another forum. Or it may have been written by someone else.
It is, however, a great explanation of the cam systems.

"Cam systems differ in the way they connect each other together and in the way they compress the limbs.

Cam characteristics differ, in the efficiency, shape of draw force curve, and let-off% they provide.

There are four basic cam systems.

(1.) Dual cam
(2.) Single cam
(3.) Hybrid Cam
(4.) Binary cam

A dual cam system, uses each cam, to pull the opposite limb tip towards it, by attaching it's cable to the axle of the opposite cam. Each cam pulls the other limb towards itself the same amount. If only one cam is turned by the string, the limbs are compressed the same amount as if both cams were turned. The only difference is, that one cable will be holding the entire load of the limbs.

A single cam system, compresses the limbs by attaching a single power cable to the top limb at the axle of the idler wheel. The single cam feeds the string off the string track below the nock, and off a reverse string track over the idler and above the nock.

A hybrid cam system, works the same way as a single cam, except instead of using a round idler wheel and one long shoot string, it uses an eccentric idler wheel, that is slaved to the cam, with a control cable. Instead of having a super long shoot string, it cuts the string in half and attaches the two ends to the eccentric idler wheel. The bottom cam and power (buss) cable is what actually compresses the limbs.

A Binary cam system, works the same way as a dual cam, except instead of attaching the cables to the axles, it attaches them to the opposite cam, so that as cable is reeled in by one cam, it is also being fed out in a lesser amount by the reverse track of the opposite cam. Since the cables are pulling both ways on each cam, one cam cannot rotate, unless the other cam rotates with it. If only one cam is rotated, the other will rotate with it, and they will both compress the limbs together, even if the shoot string is slack on one of the cams."

justin
12-19-2010, 03:20 PM
awesome!! i just learned alot!!! thanks guys!!

copterdoc
12-19-2010, 03:24 PM
- Not sure where I got this from.
It may be something that Copterdoc posted somewhere else here, or on another forum. Or it may have been written by someone else.
It is, however, a great explanation of the cam systems.

"Cam systems differ in the way they connect each other together and in the way they compress the limbs.

Cam characteristics differ, in the efficiency, shape of draw force curve, and let-off% they provide.

There are four basic cam systems.

(1.) Dual cam
(2.) Single cam
(3.) Hybrid Cam
(4.) Binary cam

A dual cam system, uses each cam, to pull the opposite limb tip towards it, by attaching it's cable to the axle of the opposite cam. Each cam pulls the other limb towards itself the same amount. If only one cam is turned by the string, the limbs are compressed the same amount as if both cams were turned. The only difference is, that one cable will be holding the entire load of the limbs.

A single cam system, compresses the limbs by attaching a single power cable to the top limb at the axle of the idler wheel. The single cam feeds the string off the string track below the nock, and off a reverse string track over the idler and above the nock.

A hybrid cam system, works the same way as a single cam, except instead of using a round idler wheel and one long shoot string, it uses an eccentric idler wheel, that is slaved to the cam, with a control cable. Instead of having a super long shoot string, it cuts the string in half and attaches the two ends to the eccentric idler wheel. The bottom cam and power (buss) cable is what actually compresses the limbs.

A Binary cam system, works the same way as a dual cam, except instead of attaching the cables to the axles, it attaches them to the opposite cam, so that as cable is reeled in by one cam, it is also being fed out in a lesser amount by the reverse track of the opposite cam. Since the cables are pulling both ways on each cam, one cam cannot rotate, unless the other cam rotates with it. If only one cam is rotated, the other will rotate with it, and they will both compress the limbs together, even if the shoot string is slack on one of the cams."
Yeah, that's my writing.

I posted it on AT a few years ago.

Hutch~n~Son Archery
12-19-2010, 03:35 PM
Yeah, that's my writing.

I posted it on AT a few years ago.

I thought that was your typing! just kidding!
info is great for those who want to learn.

geezer047
12-19-2010, 10:12 PM
I had always shot dual cams until about 2004 I tried one of Darton's cam and half. Loved it, shot it for a few years with Dartons and Hoyts. Then bought a Matthews LX to hunt with. Found out a single cam ain't so bad either. Shot a Matthews Prestige in tourns. all last year. Not a bad bow either. For 2011 I got a Shadowcat, back to a sort of dual cam. So I've really don't have a general preferance. I can shoot them all badly:)
Charlie

Arrow Splitter
12-21-2010, 06:34 AM
This thread convinces me even more to go with a hybrid cam when I get another bow.:D

alex
12-21-2010, 07:28 AM
And what is "cam and a half"? I know the other 4 types but this "one and a half" confuses me.

bfisher
12-21-2010, 09:20 AM
Give me a true dual cam everytime, but alas, these days I have to settle for Binaries. My single cam days are over. I shot them for 8 years and was glad when I had the chance to go back to duals. It's nice getting the same speed while drawing about 8# less weight.

As for timing (sync) issues? With the better strings we can get today this is a non-issue. As for tuning? They all tune the same. Setup and synchronization might take a bit of time and effort, but once done it's done (again, string quality), but actual tuning process is the same for all bows.

Besides, think of all the stuff you get to learn along the way.

Spiker
12-21-2010, 11:05 AM
Give me a true dual cam everytime, but alas, these days I have to settle for Binaries. My single cam days are over. I shot them for 8 years and was glad when I had the chance to go back to duals. It's nice getting the same speed while drawing about 8# less weight.

As for timing (sync) issues? With the better strings we can get today this is a non-issue. As for tuning? They all tune the same. Setup and synchronization might take a bit of time and effort, but once done it's done (again, string quality), but actual tuning process is the same for all bows.

Besides, think of all the stuff you get to learn along the way.

Thats pretty much where my head is at.
(Altho I never did dive into the single cams cuz of what Barry said above)

copterdoc
12-22-2010, 09:22 AM
And what is "cam and a half"? I know the other 4 types but this "one and a half" confuses me.
If you read the description of a hybrid cam, in the post where Spiker quoted me, you get the description of a Cam & 1/2.

The Cam & 1/2, is Hoyt's brand name for their hybrid cam.

I have studied how cams work, in intricate detail, over the last several years.

My personal opinion is that the single cam became so popular about 10 years ago, because bowhunters were sold on the lie that they can't go out of tune, if the string or cable stretches.

They had a bad problem with vertical nock travel, so the hybrid cam was brought to market. It's still based on the flawed engineering of the single cam, but it makes it easier to put the same cam on bows with different ATA lengths, and various grip positions (below the center of the string vs in the center of the riser), without having the nock point decend over an inch from brace to full draw.

The only cam system (non shoot-through), that has any real benefit over the dual cams that were being made in the 90's, is the slaved "Binary" cam.

Arrow Splitter
12-22-2010, 10:21 AM
My personal opinion is that the single cam became so popular about 10 years ago, because bowhunters were sold on the lie that they can't go out of tune, if the string or cable stretches.

I agree with you copterdoc. If the string or cable stretches on a single cam, you can expect the cam to be rotated too far forward or backward, which can cause poor performance.

alex
12-22-2010, 11:31 AM
If you read the description of a hybrid cam, in the post where Spiker quoted me, you get the description of a Cam & 1/2.

The Cam & 1/2, is Hoyt's brand name for their hybrid cam.

I have studied how cams work, in intricate detail, over the last several years.

My personal opinion is that the single cam became so popular about 10 years ago, because bowhunters were sold on the lie that they can't go out of tune, if the string or cable stretches.

They had a bad problem with vertical nock travel, so the hybrid cam was brought to market. It's still based on the flawed engineering of the single cam, but it makes it easier to put the same cam on bows with different ATA lengths, and various grip positions (below the center of the string vs in the center of the riser), without having the nock point decend over an inch from brace to full draw.

The only cam system (non shoot-through), that has any real benefit over the dual cams that were being made in the 90's, is the slaved "Binary" cam.

Thanks, Copterdoc! So "cam and a half" is just another name for the hybrid cam. A mystery solved :)

bb11
01-29-2011, 10:25 PM
what are some examples of a slaved binary cam?

copterdoc
01-30-2011, 05:45 AM
what are some examples of a slaved binary cam?

The C.A.T., Hybrix, and Nitro cams, are all slaved Binary cams.

SonnyThomas
01-30-2011, 05:48 AM
Not disagreeing with that of the single cam and timing, but the single cam gave more leeway for the shooters of the time and in some cases even today. Where true double cams of the early period would all but need someone with brains and a press to correct the timing, single cam owners could simply move the nocking point and move the gang sight housing and be back in business. Only with excessive string stretch did single cam owners have difficulties. Difficulties being draw length and/or cam retarded too much.

I find it odd that after all these years single cam makers do not have the cam marked for optimum position....

bb11
01-30-2011, 07:00 AM
The C.A.T., Hybrix, and Nitro cams, are all slaved Binary cams.

coptercoc, does that include the CAT2 cams?

copterdoc
01-30-2011, 07:32 AM
Yes, the C.A.T. 2, is still a C.A.T. cam.

elkslayer4x5
01-30-2011, 07:58 AM
Dual Nitrous cams. :D