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MLN1963
01-17-2011, 09:50 PM
Elk, here comes my onslaught of questions! :D

My wing span is 70 3/4" which gives me a 28.3" DL if I use the WS/2.5. My local dealer puts a yardstick to my throat and has me close my hands on the stick which gives me about a 27 1/4" DL. Based on my 5'8" height it is about 27.4". I understand DL formulas and methods are just a starting point and should get you close, but you see I have over an inch between numbers.

I'm a bit confused with the draw length recommendations I've gotten locally. I'm not here to drag anyone's name through the mud. I'd just like to see if someone can explain it to me as the dealer said he just knows what others have liked. I'm not discounting his info as he has Regional, National and International medals. It's apparent he knows how to shoot and set up bows very, very well.

Here is the thing that really throws me. Based on the 27 1/4" yardstick method it was suggested that I may need to go all the way down to a 25 1/2" DL when you add a loop and release. This really makes a difference in suitable bows whether it be a Martin or any other brand.

I understand that the D loop may make your anchor a little farther back but I would think that would be roughly 1/2". Does a release really add another 1"-1.5" and effectively give you that much shorter of a draw?

Thanks!

alex
01-18-2011, 12:45 AM
You don't need to go to 25 1/2". I'd say 27" will be ok, 26" in the worst case.

Hutch~n~Son Archery
01-18-2011, 01:21 AM
I'd say given your height, 27" dl is with in a half inch up or down.

Hutch

RLW
01-18-2011, 06:05 AM
.........Does a release really add another 1"-1.5" and effectively give you that much shorter of a draw?.........
I've only been doing this release thing for a little over a year now. Shot only with fingers at a 29" draw for 3+ decades prior to that.
I first tried a release attempting to use my old anchor point and yes it affectively shortened my draw length. However since that first day I learned a couple things.

The first thing (which probably has nothing to do with this case), I couldn't use a release in the same anchor point as I did fingers and had to move things which, in my case, placed my hand in a different position taking up some of that loss.
The second thing I started noticing in trying a few releases (all wrist strap type), is there are differences in distance between where they clamp to d-loop and where trigger is set......a full inch different between some.

At the time, I ended up settling on a Scott Little Goose as it's gap was shorter than most I tried and seemed to make it easier for me to find a new anchor point. Between the two changes, I'm right at same draw length I was before.
I have since seen one or two that have even farther forward trigger.

I guess point I'm getting to is to compare and try a few different releases, and maybe a couple hand held releases, to find something solid and comfortable that helps maximize your actual draw length.

SonnyThomas
01-18-2011, 06:43 AM
I've heard of all kinds of stuff for gaging one for draw length and some really have me say a few "colorful metaphors."
One that kind of holds true is most people have a wing span equal to their height. But back injuries and age can take from height and messes this up. I was right at 6 foot. Shooting off of the string I had my bow set to 29" of draw and shot extremely well. Figure this and the given is the below, 28.5".
At 5' 8" and in good health I'd say your draw length is close to 26.5". Add a loop and take another half inch off, so 26".
The way I see it, dealers wanting good customer return will setup a likable test bow or a bow on hand of your choosing and use your release to make sure the bow's draw length is good for you.
See following.

And correctly so, any of the methods of figuring draw length are ball park. Okay, something on the order of 1/2". Hands, fingers, facial features, using the best anchor point, type of release, off the string or use of loop, and whatever play part of setting the bow draw length to you.

Two draw length formulas exist that I know of, the one you related of and that given by the well known archery coach, Bernie Pellerite.
Bernie's is WS minus 15 divided by 2 = DL.
Now, I've worked both math formulas and Bernie's hold consistent throughout. Meaning it stays equal whether subtracting or adding. The WS/2.5 goes off.
Example;
Bernie's: 72 - 15 = 57 / 2 = 28.5"
Other: 72 / 2.5 = 28.8" - So .3" Greater difference

Bernie's: 78 - 15 = 63 / 2 = 31.5"
Other: 78 / 2.5 = 31.2" - So .3 Lesser difference.

I don't buy changing your anchor point to make up for incorrect bow draw length or the addition of a loop. If your anchor is best why destroy it to fit the bow? FIT the bow to you is the proper way.

Of loops; See a diagram of how a bow's draw length is checked. Where does the finger's catch the string or release hookup point? Now, add on a loop and where's the hookup point? So if bow's draw length gives a good anchor point, then adding a loop requires the bow's draw length be shortened.

Loops are nice for that adjusting draw length of the bow to you. That 1/8" or 1/4" too short for the closest mod setting is easily made up for by a longer loop.

RLW
01-18-2011, 07:04 AM
..........I don't buy changing your anchor point to make up for incorrect bow draw length or the addition of a loop..........
I totally agree with that........to be clear, I don't want to imply that is what I did in my above post. (& probably should have left that out)
Again, in my case only, going from fingers to release, I place(d) my thumb at the base of my ear and stretched the entire top edge of thumb/fore finger along and under to front of my jaw. Very solid consistent hold...for me.
With a release I could no longer psychically hold a release in this position and had to make a change and ended up rolling hand out/up with first knuckle up where thumb used to be.

MLN1963
01-18-2011, 11:39 AM
As it stands I don't have an anchor point to change since I don't have a bow!

Sonny, Bernie's method gives me a 27.875" DL. I am about 68.5" tall so my wingspan is about 2" longer than my height. I guess getting old and fat makes you shrink! :D

My local shop is a very small and has little selection when it comes to things like releases. I don't fault him as we're in a small town in the middle of nowhere and stock costs money. I want a buckle instead of velcro but that is about all I know right now. I guess I need to find a release that is adjustable and has a forward trigger like RLW mentioned. I'm open to suggestions here if you guys have some recommendations.

On some bows the DL can be adjusted by the half inch and others by the inch. This seems like a lot but maybe it's not really in the scope of things. Sonny mentioned that you can tweak the D-Loop a little for customizing your DL. Are there other ways to get the extra distance by jumping one inch?

SonnyThomas
01-18-2011, 11:42 AM
RLW, both our replies hit at the same time. Didn't have to read as my wife was demanding me to be chauffeur.

Yes, the switch from fingers to release is far different for anchoring and the find what works comes into play.

Now, usually staying with a index release everything is kind of straight for ward, BUT switching from index to thumb creates some needed changes. Bow draw length can be effected and then peep location can be affected.

I use a Scott Mongoose and use it on my hunting bow and my Ole War 3D bow - shooting off the string. Here, I anchor the side of first knuckle in the hollow behind the jaw and below the ear. Hint: Keep that thumb off the release barrel or head. Nothing should touch the release but the index finger. Why? People tend to squeeze both the finger and the thumb - okay, a pinch point or torque may come off doing such. Yes, torquing the release and it goes where? Yep, to the bow string.

My two target bows have loops and when using one of three releases things change a bit. I have never leaves my side TRU Ball ST360 and Stanislawski Deuce and MagMicro Trio. I notice about a 1/4" difference in the bow's draw length and the peep has to be moved for the Stans. Now with all three releases I anchor by splitting the first knuckles on my lower jaw line.

ElkSlayer
01-18-2011, 02:00 PM
loop+ release will move your ancore pt. By making a shorter or longer loop and some strap releases have ajustment between strap and release head. triger postion is differant on them so be best to take a good hard On line look.
http://www.LancasterArchery.com

http://www.ArcheryTalk.com
Once you know what it is you want look for it in the classifieds if that local guy dont have it..or wants a bit much..
Looks like sonny has you on trac for DL turst us an get a bow that is made to fit you. so long as it ajusts in DL an dose not need a new cam to so swaping mods is no big deal. what bows have caught your eye.. have you held any.... a bows grip can tell you all you need to know love it or hate it...picked up a baby G years ago could not drop that thing fast enough. best of luck. buy what you like the looks an feal of