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bfisher
02-24-2011, 08:36 AM
My Nemsis arrived today. I was out ordering new glasses so I can see what I'm shooting at and when I got home there it was, right between the door and the storm door.

Now this might not sound too interesting to some, but I ordered this bow about two weeks ago. My usual wait the last few years has averaged 2 months and last year's Alien Z was longer at 6 1/2 months. I was quite surprised to say the least. Even some other things I ordered were also in the box.

I've gone over the bow with a fine toothed comb and can't find any defects, save one. The top cam is a Hybrix 1.5 and the bottom one is a Nitro 1.5. Makes me wonder. The bow draws and feels OK. Looks like it's time for a call to find out if these two cams are really the same.

One other thing of note. The limb deflection is 175 which leads me to believe it is sporting Barnesdale limbs. Another question for Joel.

As someone else said earlier on here there is also a tag attached to the bow that shows it was checked by two people. Not that I'm going to quibble but the riser is not black. It's the same carbon fiber dip that I had on my Alien Z from last year. And the limbs are "Next" camo instead of the "Bonz" I ordered, but the fact that they are barnesdales is something I'll have reason to overlook the camo.

Draw length is adjuted very close to what I ordered (just drew it with fingers). I ordered a 50#er and it peaks at 53# so that's in order. There is the slightest bit of cam lean in the static position; maybe 1/4" from the cam to the middle of the string.

It has a straight cable rod and slide, which I'm already thinking of replacing with the TRG/SOS just to compare.

All in all, it appears that Martin is doing a better job of checking bows before they leave home office. It's nice having new toys.

bcriner
02-24-2011, 08:40 AM
just an fyi...there is no powercoated risers this year for Martin or Rytera except for the red and the last I heard they were not doing any yet.

The black as it states on the website and the catalog will actually be the black carbon-fiber film dip that they use on the limbs.

Spiker
02-24-2011, 08:42 AM
Congrats Barry.!!!!
Nothing like the aroma of a brand new bow. :D

rock
02-24-2011, 09:09 AM
thats weired two different cams, i like the hybrix cam let us know what you find out

bcriner
02-24-2011, 09:41 AM
I believe they are the same...just cosmetics...as as the Tranz single cam and Acu-Track cam....all the same...as is the M-Pro2.

Montalaar
02-24-2011, 09:50 AM
just an fyi...there is no powercoated risers this year for Martin or Rytera except for the red and the last I heard they were not doing any yet.

The black as it states on the website and the catalog will actually be the black carbon-fiber film dip that they use on the limbs.


Hmm. I asked someone at Martin and they told me that there will be no carbon fiber for 2011 bows...

bcriner
02-24-2011, 10:43 AM
I ordered black and that is what I got...carbon...

archerx7
02-24-2011, 11:37 AM
We need pics Barry, you can't announce the arrival of a new bow and not post pics, the man card can be revoked for that. :D

The 1.5 Hybrix and Nitro are the same cam, just different markings. The 2.0 Hybrix and Nitro are very close to the same, but there are enough differences between the 2.0's that I wouldn't mix them on the same bow.

Congrats on the new bow.........

Simple Life
02-24-2011, 12:09 PM
Congrats on the new rig

Hutch~n~Son Archery
02-24-2011, 01:10 PM
Congrats on the Bow Barry. Hope you can get it sorted out.


Hutch:cool:

bfisher
02-24-2011, 01:25 PM
Nothing to sort out. It'll be at least a few hours before I have it set up. There's a spot shoot at my club tomorrow evening so I'll show up early and see how it feels. Then I'll post pics and such.

I'm not worried about the color (dip) or anything. And the cams? Only reason I want to call Joel is to hear it from the horses mouth that the 1.5 Hybrix and Nitro are the same. I hate to just guess and pass on erroneous information.

So for this eveing I'll be digging out the tape and bow press and getting the specs right on. and setting this thing up.

Ehunter
02-24-2011, 04:27 PM
Congrats on the new bow Barry. Keep us updated on the performance!

whman
02-25-2011, 03:40 AM
Congratulations on the new bow, Barry! I agree....if it has Barnsdale limbs on it, I would keep quiet and carry on. I'm on my second set of limbs on my Warthog.....wish I could get Barnsdales for it (or could afford them). Hope that the Spot Shoot goes well for you......

Montalaar
02-25-2011, 03:42 AM
Just by the way, Barry:

Congratulations to your new bow...!

bfisher
02-25-2011, 11:36 AM
OK, had some time to drop into the archery shop and check out my setup. It might be hard to believe, but all these decades of experience must be paying off. First shot through paper was a bullet hole. 2nd and 3rd shots were a bullet hole. At 10 yards a bare shaft planes down and to the right, but has the same poi as fletched arrows. I'll be able to tell when I get it outside, but it looks like the arrow may be coming off the rest just a touch nock high and to the left--- a desirable result if you target shooters know what I mean.

At 27" draw and 48#, shooting 5 gr/lb it chronos at 272 fps. 10 shots and only one said 273 fps. Pretty darn consistent if you ask me. Not fast, but it does hold and aim very well considering how I shoot any more.

There is one thing that bothers me but is consistent as compared to my Alien Z. The bow peaks at 58# on my scale and five turns off the limbs only drops the bow to 48#. My Z is the same way so I'm going to assume that one turn of the limbs only reduces the weight by 2#. LOL, sometimes the math is simple. Five turns off and the brace height only reduced by 1/16" as did the a2a. Must have something to do with these parallel limbs. In other words, I'm still learning.

I did get a couple pics of the thing thrown together with parts I have on hand. Don't be making any nasty comments about the rusty cap screw on the rest. That rest has been around longer than some of you guys. Stood the test of time and still works reliably. Besides, rusty bolts don't move.

And please don't call it SWEEEEEET. I hate that word. Candy is sweet. My grandkids are sweet. This is just a bow. And as always I'm open for questions.

Brem
02-25-2011, 12:26 PM
Barry,
Its a nice rig, not for me on the looks but as my father always says "aesthetics has absolutely nothing to do with function". I would like to know what you think of the "saddleback" grip as compared to your Z.

elkslayer4x5
02-25-2011, 12:29 PM
OK, had some time to drop into the archery shop and check out my setup. It might be hard to believe, but all these decades of experience must be paying off. First shot through paper was a bullet hole. 2nd and 3rd shots were a bullet hole. At 10 yards a bare shaft planes down and to the right, but has the same poi as fletched arrows. I'll be able to tell when I get it outside, but it looks like the arrow may be coming off the rest just a touch nock high and to the left--- a desirable result if you target shooters know what I mean.

At 27" draw and 48#, shooting 5 gr/lb it chronos at 272 fps. 10 shots and only one said 273 fps. Pretty darn consistent if you ask me. Not fast, but it does hold and aim very well considering how I shoot any more.

There is one thing that bothers me but is consistent as compared to my Alien Z. The bow peaks at 58# on my scale and five turns off the limbs only drops the bow to 48#. My Z is the same way so I'm going to assume that one turn of the limbs only reduces the weight by 2#. LOL, sometimes the math is simple. Five turns off and the brace height only reduced by 1/16" as did the a2a. Must have something to do with these parallel limbs. In other words, I'm still learning.

I did get a couple pics of the thing thrown together with parts I have on hand. Don't be making any nasty comments about the rusty cap screw on the rest. That rest has been around longer than some of you guys. Stood the test of time and still works reliably. Besides, rusty bolts don't move.

And please don't call it SWEEEEEET. I hate that word. Candy is sweet. My grandkids are sweet. This is just a bow. And as always I'm open for questions.

Swell looking bow Barry. LOL
Ah, some of us have been around a long time. :D

Simple Life
02-25-2011, 01:35 PM
SWEEEE .Ah just kidding,I like the looks of the carbon and camo.

MLN1963
02-25-2011, 02:18 PM
All in all, it appears that Martin is doing a better job of checking bows before they leave home office.

I don't know you or your sense of humor so I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not. If it isn't then I don't understand your statement of quality control improving. You pointed out 3 obvious oversights on Martin's part yet you state they are improving? Just how bad were they and what improvements were made?

1. Two differents cams. Even if they are technically the same they should never have been put on the same bow. If they are the same then a bill of goods has been sold to all those getting new bows with Nitro cams thinking they were getting an improvement over the old ones.

2. Carbon fiber look riser instead of the black one you ordered. To me black and carbon fiber are worlds apart in looks and not the same thing. One has pattern and one does not.

3. Next Camo limbs instead of the Bonz limbs you ordered. Even a colorblind bow assembler could easily tell the two apart by pattern. That you may have gotten desireable Barnsdale limbs doesn't negate the fact that this wasn't the camo pattern ordered.

I used to work quality/standardization/evaluation and I'm pretty shocked to see this many mistakes on one bow. There are not one but two guys who signed off on that QC checklist whose heads should roll. This is not small screw up, neither one did their job and you have the proof. This does not reflect favorably on Martin and their quality control program.

NuttyNative
02-25-2011, 03:22 PM
I don't know you or your sense of humor so I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not. If it isn't then I don't understand your statement of quality control improving. You pointed out 3 obvious oversights on Martin's part yet you state they are improving? Just how bad were they and what improvements were made?

1. Two differents cams. Even if they are technically the same they should never have been put on the same bow. If they are the same then a bill of goods has been sold to all those getting new bows with Nitro cams thinking they were getting an improvement over the old ones.

2. Carbon fiber look riser instead of the black one you ordered. To me black and carbon fiber are worlds apart in looks and not the same thing. One has pattern and one does not.

3. Next Camo limbs instead of the Bonz limbs you ordered. Even a colorblind bow assembler could easily tell the two apart by pattern. That you may have gotten desireable Barnsdale limbs doesn't negate the fact that this wasn't the camo pattern ordered.

I used to work quality/standardization/evaluation and I'm pretty shocked to see this many mistakes on one bow. There are not one but two guys who signed off on that QC checklist whose heads should roll. This is not small screw up, neither one did their job and you have the proof. This does not reflect favorably on Martin and their quality control program.

X2, nice bow though.

Lung Buster
02-25-2011, 04:28 PM
Good luck with the new stick and string I hope everything gets figured out

bfisher
02-25-2011, 06:03 PM
MLN1963. You make a couple good points as to the quality control issue.

I haven't called Joel yet to check about the cams, but I don't think there has been much selling of a "bill of goods" as you say. Maybe the change in the Cat cams is that they just adopted the Hybrix cams used on last year's Rytera line which many people thought had a slightly nicer draw cycle but still kept the speed. If this is the case then the Nitro is a renamed Hybrix cam and is interchangable so really no harm done there. I certainly can't feel anything odd when shooting the bow.

As for the riser color? I had called Rytera and Joel some months ago to find out if the risers were carbon fiber or Black powder coat. Neither could give me an answer at that time so I accepted the fact that it would be black when I got it, and it is. Black carbon fiber pattern.

The limbs? Yeah, that should have been caught as the order form did say Bonz, but I'm really not that picky about it. I may just send the whole bow off to get Predator Fall Grey on it. Still, I get your point. Then again, as can happen sometimes, they didn't have any of my limbs with the Bonz camo so put the bow together with what they had and expecting me to accept it or call trusty Joel to get them exchanged. But yes, with two people checking over the bow one of them should have caught this and maybe had the courtesy to call me for approval. Lucky for them I'm not real picky.

Brem, I really like the saddleback grip. I think this is a real nice improvement as it just feels natural and the corners are rounded off nicely. It feels better in the hand because of this and just may contribute to less hand torque.

Spiker
02-25-2011, 06:12 PM
Barry-
Sounds like it shot pretty well for you the first time out.
What is the deflection # on your AZ limbs?
What was the ata and bh on the Nemesis?

MLN1963
02-26-2011, 06:50 AM
I still think there are some glaring quality control issues at Martin on this one. Bottom line, you didn't get what you ordered. Sure, an assembly line worker can have a bad day and something can slip through the cracks. Two workers shouldn't be having the same bad day. If one bow has this many issues, how many other bows went out that day with one or more issues?

You seem to have the inside line to Martin. You would be doing them a big favor if you contacted someone with the proper authority and let them know what kind of product you got. There are too many good bow manufactures out there that Martin, or any brand for that matter, doesn't need this kind of publicity.

bfisher
02-26-2011, 09:16 AM
Barry-
Sounds like it shot pretty well for you the first time out.
What is the deflection # on your AZ limbs?
What was the ata and bh on the Nemesis?

Yes, the Nemisis is quite pleasant to shoot. I'm sure I'll like it even more once I get a chance to get outside. I like shooting outdoors much more so than indoors.

The limb deflection on my AZ is 195. They're 175 on the Nemisis.

The specs on the Nemisis came in very close. ata was right under 34". Less than 1/16" and the brace height measured 6 7/8".

One thing I never gave much thought but am learning is that because the limbs are so parallel when you back them off it changes the brace so little as to be unmeasureable. And string and cables being what they are the ata doesn't change any measreable amount. The only thing that really changes much is the draw weight and the deflection of the limbs themselves.

Maybe I'm imagining things or the two bows are not set up exactly alike, but the Nemisis seems to have more letoff and comes to a more solid wall at full draw. It's probably me. I mean when you hit the draw stop the cam stops so the wall should feel the same. Or maybe it's just me liking a new toy to play with.

bfisher
02-26-2011, 09:32 AM
I still think there are some glaring quality control issues at Martin on this one. Bottom line, you didn't get what you ordered. Sure, an assembly line worker can have a bad day and something can slip through the cracks. Two workers shouldn't be having the same bad day. If one bow has this many issues, how many other bows went out that day with one or more issues?

You seem to have the inside line to Martin. You would be doing them a big favor if you contacted someone with the proper authority and let them know what kind of product you got. There are too many good bow manufactures out there that Martin, or any brand for that matter, doesn't need this kind of publicity.

I'll give Joel a call next week some time. Really, the only thing that is screwed up is the camo pattern and max draw weight, which I my or may not change. It's not a major issue with me, but I can see where it might be to other people. And yes, it should be dealt with for the sake of other peoples' orders.

As I stated about the riser color, I ordered an all black bow last year and got all carbon pattern. I expected a black powder coat. I called about it and found that Martin was having a problem with the vendor doing the powder coating so to keep the ball rolling they went with the film dip in the carbon pattern.

I had already talked to two people some months ago and neither led me to believe that it was different this year. At that time they didn't know either so there was no misrepresentation on their part.

My whole purpose in posting about these issues was just to let others know what to expect; that the black is carbon weave and that the bows are at least being assembled and checked prior to shipment. I'm sure as they get a few complaints the QC will improve.

MLN1963
03-02-2011, 01:23 PM
I'm curious how your conversation when with Joel? Just for my benefit what is Joel's position?

Spiker
03-02-2011, 02:13 PM
Something I have noticed is that on the Ryteras 60# and 70# bows - with the strings set at factory specs - max out at 1.5#-2.5# over. The 50# bows seem to max out at 4.5#-5.5# over. With either the 1.5's or 2.0's.
Maybe that is to get the draw length correct.?.!??
And just for reference this is with the Barnsdales.

50# 60# 70#
AX 2.0 155 135 115
AX 1.5 175 155 135
AZ 2.0 175 155 135
AZ 1.5 195 175 155
NEM 2.0 155 135 115
NEM 1.5 175 155 135

40# AX,NEM 175
40# AZ 195

If I got it wrong I'm sure ya-all will tell me.

bfisher
03-02-2011, 05:58 PM
Something I have noticed is that on the Ryteras 60# and 70# bows - with the strings set at factory specs - max out at 1.5#-2.5# over. The 50# bows seem to max out at 4.5#-5.5# over. With either the 1.5's or 2.0's.
Maybe that is to get the draw length correct.?.!??
And just for reference this is with the Barnsdales.

50# 60# 70#
AX 2.0 155 135 115
AX 1.5 175 155 135
AZ 2.0 175 155 135
AZ 1.5 195 175 155
NEM 2.0 155 135 115
NEM 1.5 175 155 135

40# AX,NEM 175
40# AZ 195

If I got it wrong I'm sure ya-all will tell me.

I never knew this before. In other words, just like Easton arrows, the lower the deflection # the stiffer the limb is? Good to know. Only problem is, my Nemisis peaks at 58# with 175 limbs. I'd be better off with 195 limbs and peak at about 48#. Right now the bow peaks at 48# with five turns off the limbs.

polaris754
03-03-2011, 01:57 PM
congrats on the new bow Barry , have fun :D

MLN1963
03-03-2011, 02:54 PM
Barry, I'm curious how your conversation when with Joel? Just for my benefit what is Joel's position?

bfisher
03-03-2011, 04:26 PM
Barry, I'm curious how your conversation when with Joel? Just for my benefit what is Joel's position?

Haven't talked with him yet. So far as I know he's a Tech rep working in the warranty department. What they officially call his position I do not know.

bfisher
03-04-2011, 07:54 AM
OK, I finally took the time to call and Joel was the man I talked to. For information, he doesn't have a particular title, but he is, as I staed above, a Tech rep in the warranty dept.

Now, the issue about my Nemisis. I explained the limb camo issue and draw weight. He's going to look and see if they have a set of 195 deflection limbs in Bonz camo. He's not happy that two inspectors missed this.

Also, the bottom cam is a Nitro (Martin) and the top one is a Hybrix. There is no difference between them with the exception of the labeling. Even so, Hybrix is Rytera and Notro is Martin, and he is highly upset that these two got mixed up on my bow. He's sending me new cams. Also requested that I email him pics of them.

So in reference to MLN1963's post, there is going to be action taken to ensure that the customer gets what is ordered. This not a big deal to me, but may be to other customers and to ensure that QC is doing their part if anybody has issues with any future orders then it is prudent to let the factory know. If they don't get any feedback they have to assume all is well, when it may not be the case.

He's the one that upgraded my position to Admin to deal with spam and other issues here, and I conveyed to him the satisfaction all you guys have expressed.

Hutch~n~Son Archery
03-04-2011, 11:35 AM
Thanks again Barry for taking the time to help us on the forum and informing us on all the issues. Sounds like Joel is going to get things taken care of.

Hutch:cool:

CaptJJ
03-04-2011, 11:46 AM
OK, I finally took the time to call and Joel was the man I talked to. For information, he doesn't have a particular title, but he is, as I staed above, a Tech rep in the warranty dept.

Now, the issue about my Nemisis. I explained the limb camo issue and draw weight. He's going to look and see if they have a set of 195 deflection limbs in Bonz camo. He's not happy that two inspectors missed this.

Also, the bottom cam is a Nitro (Martin) and the top one is a Hybrix. There is no difference between them with the exception of the labeling. Even so, Hybrix is Rytera and Notro is Martin, and he is highly upset that these two got mixed up on my bow. He's sending me new cams. Also requested that I email him pics of them.

So in reference to MLN1963's post, there is going to be action taken to ensure that the customer gets what is ordered. This not a big deal to me, but may be to other customers and to ensure that QC is doing their part if anybody has issues with any future orders then it is prudent to let the factory know. If they don't get any feedback they have to assume all is well, when it may not be the case.

He's the one that upgraded my position to Admin to deal with spam and other issues here, and I conveyed to him the satisfaction all you guys have expressed.

Sounds like the Martin CS that I know.:D

bfisher
03-04-2011, 12:46 PM
I have all the faith in the world in Martin's customer service dept. My dig is that the people working there should not have to do so much work. That's where QC comes into play. Get that straightened out and Martin's reputation for quality should get better, too.

MLN1963
03-05-2011, 06:05 AM
I'm glad to see that someone at Martin is concerned. Had that happened to me I would have been PISSED to say the least. I know that this stuff was no big deal to you Barry but it is a big deal when looking at the big picture. You did the right thing by bringing it to Martin's attention and with any luck this will not happen to someone else.

NuttyNative
03-05-2011, 06:20 AM
I'm glad to see that someone at Martin is concerned. Had that happened to me I would have been PISSED to say the least. I know that this stuff was no big deal to you Barry but it is a big deal when looking at the big picture. You did the right thing by bringing it to Martin's attention and with any luck this will not happen to someone else.

I agree, I would have ripped someone a new one just for the fact it's not what I had ordered & payed for. Maybe QC will step up.

elkslayer4x5
03-05-2011, 08:11 AM
Sounds as if Joel will get those folks straightened out on just what their job is in QC, and hopefully Martin reputation will improve amoungst the un-knowing masses. :cool:

Speedykills
03-05-2011, 08:45 AM
Bow looks really nice,i really like that carbon look it has.Looks futuristic just like the bow.