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shoots martin
03-02-2011, 07:37 AM
Hello! My son is 12 yrs old, he shoots a Diamond Razors Edge bow, draw length 27", draw weight 50 lbs, he shoots 2 to 3 times a week. My question is, when he shoots at targets he's not consistent, but when be shoots 3D he's dead on. We have worked through torquing the bow, he had Target panic for a bit got over that, now I'm not sure how to help with inconsistent Target shooting. When he shoots 10 yards, he's good, 20 yards is where he falls apart. Any ideas?

Arrow Splitter
03-02-2011, 07:44 AM
Make sure he's not jerking or pulling the trigger, and make sure the bow isn't tilted to the left or right during the shot. Also, it helps to exhale and squeeze the trigger, or inhale and hold just before the shot.

A.S

NuttyNative
03-02-2011, 08:00 AM
My wife has similar issues with the same bow. I understand it's nothing to do with the bow, just kinda coincidental. Like AS said, make sure he is leveling the bow before the shot. My wifes main issues are getting her to understand a consistent anchor point or points, and a consistent loose grip. With her it also makes a difference if she's wearing bulky clothing.
This is challenging for me because the frustration can be directed at the HUSBAND as usual & when they reach a certain point they stop listening :D.

ElkSlayer
03-02-2011, 08:00 AM
Do you feal its a lack of concentration, on aiming at a plane ole target face..
drawing on a 3D real lookin animal is a lot more interesting.

make it fun , play some games with him.. tic tac toe,there are so manyout there.. or get your self some small water balloons. (personal fav)

look here
http://www.dewclawarchery.com/printable_targets-a/136.htm

Now one that got my kids (son /grandkids) to be on the money was a simple dare... I put 1 of mine in the spot I want them to aim @ :cool:

Thats right... Dare you kids to hit my arrow hood that thing and IT'S YOUR's
has not happend yet;) but boy you should see them groups get tighter :D

NuttyNative
03-02-2011, 08:09 AM
One thing that has helped a little. I bought a small nerf football and toss it around the yard and have her try to hit it. Helps with judging distance too. The football does not have a dot, or rings, or an X that make her feel like she's failed like a target does.

cyclepath
03-02-2011, 08:29 AM
When he is shooting a 3d course he has a totally dark background to aim at a spot which makes it easier to sight on and hit. When he is shooting target is he shooting a five spot target? These have a very light background which makes it harder to focus on and see where your arrow is hitting. Try using a large target with a dark background, perhaps black with a orange or red bulls eye at 20 yards and see if this will improve his accuracy.

elkslayer4x5
03-02-2011, 08:38 AM
Hello! My son is 12 yrs old, he shoots a Diamond Razors Edge bow, draw length 27", draw weight 50 lbs, he shoots 2 to 3 times a week. My question is, when he shoots at targets he's not consistent, but when be shoots 3D he's dead on. We have worked through torquing the bow, he had Target panic for a bit got over that, now I'm not sure how to help with inconsistent Target shooting. When he shoots 10 yards, he's good, 20 yards is where he falls apart. Any ideas?

Could be that 50 # is a bit much for him, he's 12. When my grandon was 12 ( last year ) we kept him at 30#s, now at 40#s, you can see how consistant he's getting.
http://www.martinarchery.com/mtechforum/showthread.php?t=8890

cyclepath
03-02-2011, 08:52 AM
Good point there elkslayer. Drop the poundage 10 or 15 pounds, this will help alot. Alot of people I shoot spot with are only pulling 35 to 45, and they are much much much much older.

bfisher
03-02-2011, 09:36 AM
Good point there elkslayer. Drop the poundage 10 or 15 pounds, this will help alot. Alot of people I shoot spot with are only pulling 35 to 45, and they are much much much much older.

I agree with it maybe being too much weight, at least for learning to better his shooting form. I'm a prime example of what cyclepath just said. I'm a grown man, fairly YOUNG at 63, and shooting spots I have been shooting 42#.
Foam or paper doesn't jump the string so speed isn't an issue nor is penetration, but bettering ones form calls for being able to control the bow easily to build good form, which builds muscle and mind memory, all necessary for accuracy.

SonnyThomas
03-02-2011, 10:57 AM
Good replies and advice so far. Wholeheartedly agree that 50 pounds is quite a bit for most 12 year olds. That much weight and he may be trying to get the shot off too quickly.

You say he's dead on in 3D, but greatly inconsistent with spots. With spots you get 4 minutes to get off 5 shots and people tend to shoot all 5 arrows well before the 4 minutes expires. So pacing ones self is important. Said is give yourself 15 to 17 seconds between shots and relax that bow arm - straighten out and then relax or some movement to let the blood flow.
Note; Some broke down the strength % shot for shot, something like the following; 100% for the 1st shot, 90% 2nd, 75% 3rd, 65% 4th, 60% 5th. Now, give that bow arm 15 seconds or so and strength is back to 100%.

Okay, in 3D that 1 shot uses up so much energy, but is recovered through the minutes before the next 3D target is shot.

Shooting a 3D target opposed to shooting a spot. Most people do tend to shoot 3D better than spots. I would note there is nothing to make you really bear down in 3D, sight in wise. You put the pin where you think the point is and let go. Spots though have this dang ring to stay within - one tenses up, tries to make the pin stay within the ring and thus creates more movement.

One of the worst things to do for one helping is to "see" what the shooter sees. Is the peep allowing enough light in? Is the sight housing edging the peep opening and creating a problem? Are the pins of the right diameter for the game or that person? Does he or she have eye problems that don't show otherwise?

Eye glasses. Yep, needed for some, but if for just for reading take the dang things off. Those with 150 or even 175 corrective bifocals can well get by without them for shooting. If needed for distance then frames or lens may need changed. Usually the inside corners of the glasses are in the way and worse, the corrective glass does not extended enough or a different grind is incorporated at the edge of the glass.
I have terrible eyes. Top left, straight glass. Top right, magnification. Bottom left, 175. Bottom right, 150. I wear my glasses to adjust my sight frame and take them off to shoot.

Hutch~n~Son Archery
03-02-2011, 11:59 AM
My 15 year old daughter shoots a martin jaguar. We have her set at 40lbs. I have to say that it is more than enough for her. So set the bow down to 35 or 40 and you will see a difference.

Hutch:cool:

shoots martin
03-02-2011, 12:23 PM
Thanks everyone for your input. I think I'll turn his bow down, even though he pulls back 50lbs well. My two boy's shoot indoor 3D tonight, I think I'll wait till after he's done tonight to turn his bow down. He has his eye on a Silencer, I'm in tr$uble.

elkslayer4x5
03-02-2011, 12:37 PM
My wife has similar issues with the same bow. I understand it's nothing to do with the bow, just kinda coincidental. Like AS said, make sure he is leveling the bow before the shot. My wifes main issues are getting her to understand a consistent anchor point or points, and a consistent loose grip. With her it also makes a difference if she's wearing bulky clothing.
This is challenging for me because the frustration can be directed at the HUSBAND as usual & when they reach a certain point they stop listening :D.

All of the above could just a well apply to your wife's lack of concentation, crank her back down if she's shooting over 40#, the easier it is, the more they'll shoot, and if they shoot more, they'll soon shoot better. :)

NuttyNative
03-02-2011, 01:56 PM
Right now she is at 36 pounds and has no issues with the draw. I told her I won't go to 40 till she's consistent at 20 yards.
Personally I think part of the issue is the short riser on the razor edge. I've been trying to talk her into a longer riser, longer A2A, single cam bow. She is real twitchy when trying to keep her sight bubble level.
Convincing her that every step must be repeated the same is a challenge. She wants to grip it differently, don't like the string on her nose, stuff like that. If she doesn't at least hit the 10 ring in three shots she starts beating up on herself and gets worse. Then she over analyzes and starts to over compensate things.

Ehunter
03-02-2011, 04:26 PM
Makes me remember back to my childhood. Shooting clays with my dad. I'd average about 65% until he got mad. I was having more fun just hearing the gun go off than hitting targets. Once he got mad, I'd go somewhere around 95% until I got bored, then back to 65% again. I'm thinking you might be running into the same thing. Making it more exciting than just hitting targets will probably cure his problems. I know I am a better shot when shooting at even hand drawn targets. I draw squirrels, prairie dogs, birds, deer, anything I can think of. Draw a dartboard. That's a good one for multiple shooters.

shoots martin
03-03-2011, 02:58 AM
Here's an up date on my sons shooting. He shot indoor 3D lastnight and started out a little off his game, so I said what the heck and lowered his draw weight from 50lbs down to 45lbs. The rest of the night he did seem to shoot better each round. I think I will keep him at 45lbs and see how he shoots targets this weekend. I do have to brag a little, my 9 yr old son was shooting the 20yrd and 30yrd 3D targets and had lots of 10's, and 8's.

ElkSlayer
03-03-2011, 06:08 AM
thats awsome keep it up an they will both out shoot ya...every kid wants to be just like dad :D

bfisher
03-03-2011, 07:57 AM
Here's an up date on my sons shooting. He shot indoor 3D lastnight and started out a little off his game, so I said what the heck and lowered his draw weight from 50lbs down to 45lbs. The rest of the night he did seem to shoot better each round. I think I will keep him at 45lbs and see how he shoots targets this weekend. I do have to brag a little, my 9 yr old son was shooting the 20yrd and 30yrd 3D targets and had lots of 10's, and 8's.

Of course you now you'll have to resight his bow. 20 yards probably won't change much, but longer yardages will. That 5# just might help him out. It's better for him to learn to shoot correctly than to break any bad habits he might otherwise have formed.

elkslayer4x5
03-03-2011, 08:33 AM
Of course you now you'll have to resight his bow. 20 yards probably won't change much, but longer yardages will. That 5# just might help him out. It's better for him to learn to shoot correctly than to break any bad habits he might otherwise have formed.

Amen to that. The kid is young, don't rush him, by the time he's outta high school, he'll be outshooting you ( maybe ) but he'll be trying to. If you'd like an idea of how often parents over bow their children, take a look at the AT classifieds Womens and youth bows. :rolleyes:

bfisher
03-03-2011, 09:02 AM
Amen to that. The kid is young, don't rush him, by the time he's outta high school, he'll be outshooting you ( maybe ) but he'll be trying to. If you'd like an idea of how often parents over bow thire children, take a look at the AT classifieds Womens and youth bows. :rolleyes:

Hey, I'd venture an educated guess and say at least half the adult males are overbowed, too. That and probably close to 75% shoot a longer draw length than what they should.

ElkSlayer
03-03-2011, 09:19 AM
Hey, I'd venture an educated guess and say at least half the adult males are overbowed, too. That and probably close to 75% shoot a longer draw length than what they should.

true.. key point is, If you can not draw your bow while sitting on a chair..its too much weight.. one should be able to hold bow still, while drawing back with out any body sway, even while standing... If you try an shoot the moon to draw...best you back it down :cool:

shoots martin
03-03-2011, 09:21 AM
fisher; you are correct we will have to resight his bow. When I lowered the draw weight, he said to me " this is way to easy to pull back". I told him its not about how much you can pull back, its about being accurate. When I start to see tight groups, then we might turn bow up. I have been blessed with two wonderful boys who love to shoot with me.

ElkSlayer
03-03-2011, 09:42 AM
fisher; you are correct we will have to resight his bow. When I lowered the draw weight, he said to me " this is way to easy to pull back". I told him its not about how much you can pull back, its about being accurate. When I start to see tight groups, then we might turn bow up. I have been blessed with two wonderful boys who love to shoot with me.

funny I have heard that befor. I must ask how long can he shoot that bow @ It's current weight ? amount of arrows @ a time ?
take a look in Green with envy thread. (feal free to post up his groups)
. Rhino is 5' 5" an 150lbs 27"draw, shoots a parker sidekick @ 40lbs.
I know he is under bowed.. but with out 50# limbs he knows he cant have more even if he wants it.. and he does..

elkslayer4x5
03-03-2011, 02:20 PM
I was talking to Rottzilla who lives a few miles from the Parker facility, and they're still making us send the bow back and have them install limbs, $50 for the limbs +shipping. Only has to shoot 130 yds to be legal here. :) and 40# is enough for this not so little guy, wonder what he'll be wearing in July? :)

http://images.imagelinky.com/1299195007.jpg (http://images.imagelinky.com/1299195007.jpg)

shoots martin
03-03-2011, 06:10 PM
ElkSlayer; To answer your questions, when we shoot targets he shoots 2 warm up rounds, then 10 rounds of 6 arrows (72), that takes 1 1/2 to 2 hours.

ElkSlayer
03-04-2011, 10:45 AM
sounds like he shoots plenty then...back the 6 arrows down to 4.( thats the # used in field rounds) you can still shoot that time frame just may get more ends done :D hope his target shooting comes around,,,as i said make it fun.
go ahead an give them one of your arrows to shoot at..watch them groups get tighter...

shoots martin
03-05-2011, 06:06 AM
We shot target lastnight and he had a robin hood. We get up this morning and he has to shoot 4H archery, and guess what another robin hood $$$$$$$$. He is shooting much better. Thanks

bfisher
03-05-2011, 06:16 AM
We shot target lastnight and he had a robin hood. We get up this morning and he has to shoot 4H archery, and guess what another robin hood $$$$$$$$. He is shooting much better. Thanks

We used to have a saying among the group I shot with. Quote: "Easton makes them every day." Glad to hear something is helping him. Now I'll bet he gets even better as his confidence level will go up. Just remember though, he'll have good days and once in a while a bad day. Just shoot form and don't be concerned with score.

Hutch~n~Son Archery
03-05-2011, 06:38 AM
Robinhoods are great! As bfisher said the confidence level climbs and so doesn't the shooting.
That is good news shoots martin!

Hutch:cool:

justin
03-05-2011, 07:39 AM
lol destroying aarows wrecks me!!!! lol. been shooting indoor and been averaging 280ish. havent got anything deadnuts locked down either....lol im not liking how my peep is framing my sight inside. outside in sunlight its great!
lol i havent even got the knock point where i want it yet.

elkslayer4x5
03-05-2011, 08:25 AM
We shot target lastnight and he had a robin hood. We get up this morning and he has to shoot 4H archery, and guess what another robin hood $$$$$$$$. He is shooting much better. Thanks

Pretty amazing what a few pounds can do, isn't it? :)