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gamester1968
03-23-2011, 07:16 PM
First until this new change to the board I could post topics and pictures. Now I had to re-register cause the site doesn't recognize my original id and password.

Second..
i have a shadowcat and it is a great bow for me because I have a very long draw length, 33.5. I am however have some difficult times tuning it beyond 40 yards. Beyond this mark I am all over the place. 2 arrows on the mark and the next 2 not even on target. I am very consistent with my anchor points and release. I have even numbered my sticks and have not found any difference. I switched from a moab to this bow for draw length and with the moab I could nail a gnats ass whenever I wanted to. I have spent countless hours in a Techno hunt and know how to hold draw release etc. I have paper tuned and so to great extent and still with the shadowcat I am having troubles. I have cat 2 cams and had it cronoed at 295 with 70 lb draw weight at 33 inch draw and 460 grain stiff splined sticks. Any suggestions?

bigbob29
03-23-2011, 10:15 PM
I am 6'4'' and until last year had a draw about 31''. Had some problems with grouping at longer distances too and on the recommendations of a few guys had a photo taken of myself at full draw. Good move as I was leaning back at full draw, a sure sign of too long a draw length. My d/l now is about 29 1/2'' and grouping is great. Unless you are VERY tall and have extra long arms it just might be your D/LUnless you can see it your self you may not believe it. Worth a thought.

bfisher
03-24-2011, 05:03 AM
If you could post a picture of you standing at full draw and aiming at a target at shoulder height we could help you. Such a picture should be from the feet up. Without knowing you or seeing you I'd almost have to think your problem is draw length related. You say you have a 33.5" draw length, but for this to be correct or nearly so you'd have to have about an 84" wingspan. If you don't know what wingspan is then just say it often correlates to your height or close to it. In other words, for 33.5" to fit you you'd have to be about 7' tall.

The fact that you stated you could shoot a Moab, which goes to 31", very accurately leads me to believe that a shorter draw length fits you better. If you are a tall person then the longer a2a of the ShadowCat is a wise choice.

You just wait till Montalaar gets on here. He's a tall person with adraw length of about 32" so he understands what I'm talking about. Also he has a ShadowCat or two. Just like bigboob says, he's 6'4" and shooting 29.5" so he has learned. Most people I know, some of them professional archers, that are 6'3" or so shoot right at about 30" draw. And if shooting a strng loop the bow's draw length is just a bit shorter.

SonnyThomas
03-24-2011, 06:38 AM
Improper draw length does show at longer distances.

If you have read of my posts I am not a lover of paper tuning - only to see if arrow is coming out of bow cleanly.

Walk Back tuning suffices for most shooting, but French tuning is my preferred long range tuning.

Montalaar
03-24-2011, 11:22 AM
Here i am.

I own 2 ShadowCats, both set to 32" with a very short valley and really not that much of Letoff. I have no problems to get that bow to group at different distances. My centershot is far to the right, my sight far to the left. I tuned it this way, it looks like crap but it works great. I know that my drawlength is just right for me, i can even bend my bowarm. I tried a Warthog with 31" and i could not shoot it.

I'd say: 33.5" with a ShadowCat is nearly impossible to shoot. 33" is the upper end of the drawlength range.

So if you tell me that you can shoot both i must guess that something is plain wrong here. You are more accurate with a shorter drawlength so i'd guess the shorter one is the better and rather right one.

bigbob29
03-24-2011, 03:44 PM
Bfisher I know it was a typo but bigBOOB? ;):confused:lol Also agree on all you say on drawlength.

SonnyThomas
03-24-2011, 05:58 PM
Bfisher I know it was a typo but bigBOOB? ;):confused:lol Also agree on all you say on drawlength.

bf may have remembered that "picture" just about the same he was multi-tasking - using two fingers to type. :D Then again, he is a scuba diver... :D

bfisher
03-24-2011, 06:39 PM
Bfisher I know it was a typo but bigBOOB? ;):confused:lol Also agree on all you say on drawlength.

Did I really do that? LOL. Sorry 'bout that.

Sonny, I do not type with two fingers. I do have short pinkies so can only use three fingers on each hand, though. That's one of the reasons I misspell a lot.

bigbob29
03-24-2011, 11:00 PM
I thought it was hilarious!

Montalaar
03-24-2011, 11:35 PM
Did I really do that? LOL. Sorry 'bout that.

Sonny, I do not type with two fingers. I do have short pinkies so can only use three fingers on each hand, though. That's one of the reasons I misspell a lot.

If YOU misspell a lot... What do i?

But hey, let's get back on topic and see what the original poster wants to do. I still believe that his draw is too long.

martinbowhunter
03-25-2011, 12:33 AM
If you could post a picture of you standing at full draw and aiming at a target at shoulder height we could help you. Such a picture should be from the feet up. Without knowing you or seeing you I'd almost have to think your problem is draw length related. You say you have a 33.5" draw length, but for this to be correct or nearly so you'd have to have about an 84" wingspan. If you don't know what wingspan is then just say it often correlates to your height or close to it. In other words, for 33.5" to fit you you'd have to be about 7' tall.

The fact that you stated you could shoot a Moab, which goes to 31", very accurately leads me to believe that a shorter draw length fits you better. If you are a tall person then the longer a2a of the ShadowCat is a wise choice.

You just wait till Montalaar gets on here. He's a tall person with adraw length of about 32" so he understands what I'm talking about. Also he has a ShadowCat or two. Just like bigboob says, he's 6'4" and shooting 29.5" so he has learned. Most people I know, some of them professional archers, that are 6'3" or so shoot right at about 30" draw. And if shooting a strng loop the bow's draw length is just a bit shorter.

I agree with almost every thing. You don't have to be about 7' tall to have a 33.5" draw lenth! There are some people with freakishly long limb's to height ratio....im just saying.

gamester1968
03-25-2011, 03:14 AM
Thanks to all who are helping me out. From tip of my fingers across my chest to tip of opposite finger I have a length of 76". I will try to get a picture of me at full draw from the side. I am only 6'1.5" and I guess odd because that length should equal my height but it does not. When I had the Moab I had extensive coaching by a very knowledgeable bow shop owner who set my bow up for cause it wasn't done right from where I bought it. Not to mention around 4 to 5 hrs in a techno shoot arena. I still always felt the Moab fell short to what I needed in dl.

With that I thought I was capable to at least get myself started with a new bow because I always felt my draw length was longer and my Moab would not go beyond 30". When I was measured I was told my dl was 32. I made the mistake in my post for 33.5 and meant my Shadowcat will adjust to 33.5. As a result the great folks at Martin took my Moab back in trade and I paid the cost difference for the SC because they wanted me to have a bow that would fit me better. When I draw back and anchor I am at the same place I have always been and can smoke any target out to 40 yards with any of my arrows and in a tight group. Beyond that it just gets inconsistant. But like I said with the Moab I was consistant at 50 and 60 as well. So now I have a better bow I believe for my needs that is whipping out 292 fps with a 460grain stick and I feel that I should be consistant out to 80.

I don't look for long shots when hunting and really take my time but I passed last years season without a deer because they were all out beyond the 40 in the 50 60 range where I knew my shooting was not grouping well so would not take a chance on a wounded deer.

I guess after being so long winded I would like to know where I can find a pro that I can visit to get straightened out. I am north 85 miles from Wenatchee Wa.

bfisher
03-25-2011, 07:14 AM
I agree with almost every thing. You don't have to be about 7' tall to have a 33.5" draw lenth! There are some people with freakishly long limb's to height ratio....im just saying.

I know he doesn't have to be that tall, but when he said he shot a 29.5 inch bow with very good accuracy it just led me to believe that he is over estimating his draw length by saying 33.5". There are very very very few people that require a draw length that long. However there are those who shoot several inches too long and say they have such a long draw.

Now for gamester1968. First, I don't mind you or anybody being long winded. Posting details is what helps us help you. And if I did mind long winded posts I'd really be some type of hypocrite, as my friends on here would attest to.

Doing the math using your wingspan I would say a 30" draw is almost perfect for you. It actually comes up 30.6" but if you shoot a loop this adds the little bit extra to stretch you out. One reason you may have felt short with the MOAB is because of the a2a length compared to what you may have shot before. Sometimes we shoot a previous bow and/or shoot for such a period of time we get accutomed to a certain feel with our anchors and such. It really becomes apparent with these shorter bows of today. If the bows you shot before were longer then a short bow just won't let you use the same anchors without changing your form. An example would be touching you nose to the string. With shorter bows you have to either run the draw length longer or raise your anchor to do so. Raise the anchor too much and you don't get the distance out of your sight. Make the draw length too long and you give up accuracy, especially at longer distances. Sound familiar?

Here's the advantage of having the bow you have, the ShadowCat. It does have a longer a2a. That's a plus. The other is that it has a rotating module and is easy to change settings. I would suggest starting with the mod in the 30" setting and shoot it for a week. Then move the module to the next longer setting which will be 1/2" longer and shoot this for a week. Do the same for all the settings. Measure your group sizes and record them. In other words keep a log. When you find a setting that is right for you it will show in how well the bow aims for you. You won't wander around so much on target. The bow will just naturally settle down without so much conscious effort from you.

The reason to shoot each setting for a week is to give your mind and body a chance to get used to them. A few arrows or a day or two isn't enough time. Speaking from experience, once you find a setting that fits you almost perfectly you will find that if you make the draw a half inch longer (too long) you'll have trouble controlling the bow. And your shooting will make it very evident. 5 Years ago I went from 27.5" to 27" and shot this for 4 months. I then tried to go back to 27.5" and it was really ugly, even at a distance of 20 yards.

And keep in touch. We care.

bfisher
03-25-2011, 07:50 AM
While I'm being long winded a couple other things have come into my pea brain. Loss of grouping ability at long range can be caused by a couple other things, equipment related.

If arrows are too stiff for your setup they will not group as well at long range. And/or FOC. If there isn't enough weight on the front of the arrow or ther is too much drag on the tail end the same thing can happen. Groups can be tight at short range, but the arrows tend to drift at longer distances. This is why I mentioned about listing details of your setup.

These are things we can tackle later, but first and foremost is getting the bow set for you so you can shoot as accurately as you're capable of. So while you're playing with draw length don't get bent out of shape if the arrows don't group as well as you think they should. Concentrate more on how quickly the bow settles down and how solidly it aims for you. Take things one step at a time and have patience.

gamester1968
03-25-2011, 01:52 PM
bfisher....

Thanks for all the input. I will certainly start working the draw length idea. Another item is yes I have stiff spline arrows because the dealer said with this bow I would need them or I could start blowing up sticks or something. Perhaps it was just so that I would buy some expensive arrows who knows. Just so that I have the right info posted I just checked the modules and they are set on the #5 of the 1-7 spaces it has on the cat2's. Perhaps you can tell me then what my draw is set at. I also have a release loop at about 1/2". My arrows are prowler v3 300 = 75/90 with 100grain tips or broads. I have a single pin sight and a tubeless peep and a diamondback drop away rest. My draw weight is set at 70lb. I don't know if the draw stop is set right as well. So now the next step is to get you a draw photo. By the way gamester1968 is aka Walt.

Montalaar
03-25-2011, 02:35 PM
#5 should equal something between 31.5 and 32", depending on the setting of your drawstop.