PDA

View Full Version : New trg string wear



boobowbender
04-16-2011, 07:32 AM
Just picked up the new firecat! smoking fast, not as smooth as the onza though but dealer assured me it was because of a lighter draw weight. Anyways whats the verdict on how to deals with all the string wear from the trg. dealer tried putting some ointment? on trg system to help reduce friction but i dont think it will last long.
B

Simple Life
04-16-2011, 07:42 AM
I think EHunter is using Bohnings string conditioner with good results.I just started using Scorpion Venom Ploymeric with decent results.

boobowbender
04-16-2011, 08:01 AM
I think EHunter is using Bohnings string conditioner with good results.I just started using Scorpion Venom Ploymeric with decent results.

so that polymeric goes on string or trg? could be what was put on my trg? Did i read some where that martin was advising not to put any serving there to protect cable? is there such a thing as really fine serving that wont disrupt things too much?
thanks

boobowbender
04-16-2011, 08:05 AM
p.s simple life

What do you think of that 7 in octane, i'm looking for a good stab. My dealer had an old 10 in doinker on his bow he let me shoot but wouldn't give it up i liked it alot. I dont know the cost of octanes but i think $75 is getting pretty pricey for a stabilizer

Simple Life
04-16-2011, 11:24 AM
so that polymeric goes on string or trg? could be what was put on my trg? Did i read some where that martin was advising not to put any serving there to protect cable? is there such a thing as really fine serving that wont disrupt things too much?
thanks

Yes it goes on the string.Yes,you are not suppose to serve the cable in the TRG.Haven't shot enough to give a review,like to take it off and see if there is any difference.

Ehunter
04-16-2011, 01:20 PM
I use Bohnings Xcellerator string conditioner and have had great results so far. Over 2000 shots on one of the bows, and no cable wear at all. Just get a little residue every now and hten, so I clean the cables, then recondition them. As far as serving the cables there, it's a bad idea. The serving will act like a saw on the TRG, and eventually wear grooves in the plastic. Martin originally tried serving the cables there, and ran into that problem. Just keep the cables lubed up good, and you shouldn't have any problems at all. I think any of the "thinner" lubes should work fine. I originally tried regular old string wax, and the build-up was horrible. I recondition mine after every couple hundred shots now.

SonnyThomas
04-16-2011, 04:32 PM
First, the TRG should be set for your setup. Okay, no more offsetting the cables any more than necessary.

In theroy, if not true application, the TRG doesn't touch the cables as much as a standard guide rod system.

guest
04-17-2011, 05:59 AM
I tried to wax the string and it just makes a mess near the trg.

boobowbender
04-18-2011, 08:01 AM
thanks, i went out looking for bohnings string condition at gander. they didn't have it. found some track lube for crossbows, must have been what my dealer put on the trg.
i will have to order on internet.
How would I go about tuning the trg? do i set it so it barely makes contact when it is at rest or do i have to figure it out when at full draw. I noticed my dealers onza was worn at 3/4 down the trg.
Went and really shot it for first time yesterday, what a tack driver. shoots alot harder than the onza though



2011 firecat 400, sword twilight hunter sight, apa twister dropaway, carbon xpress maxima blue streak 250's (target), easton epics 340 (hunting)

wscywabbit
04-18-2011, 10:01 AM
"shoots alot harder than the onza though"

Do you mean it hits harder at impact, or its harder to shoot? :confused:

boobowbender
04-18-2011, 12:04 PM
"shoots alot harder than the onza though"

Do you mean it hits harder at impact, or its harder to shoot? :confused:

Just felt like it kicked alot more, but there was 7 pounds draw difference between the two. Maybe there is some tuning to soften the shot on my fc. I do need a good stabilizer, i only have a sims s coil. I would like a 8 to 10 incher though
After sighting it in yesterday i don't really care. wind blowing, 40 yards, 3 out of 4 arrows touching each other. should change my handle to arrowrecker

mudpig
04-19-2011, 05:43 AM
I too use the Bohning Excellerator string conditioner at the TRG and regular string wax for the balance of the string and cables. When I first started out, I was using regular wax at the TRG and was getting a clumpy wax buildup on the string. To cleanup the clumps of wax, I took a piece of dental floss, wrapped it around the string once, pulled it tight then worked it up and down the affected area. Now I use the Excellerator wax at the TRG and have NO buildup and no wear on the TRG. One bow has 3500 shots and my new 70# bow has about 500 shots thru it....NO WEAR at all. Note: cables are NOT searved.

Ehunter
04-19-2011, 04:16 PM
The "thump" or "kick" you are feeling might be a sign the cams are slightly out of time on the FC. I have a 60# Onza and a 70# FC and they are both almost the exact same as far as How they feel on the shot. The FC does have a little better stabilizer on it though, but hopefully soon, I'll have my stabilizers back and I can do a true side by side with the exact same stabs on each bow.

nuker
05-01-2011, 09:58 PM
I bouhgt an Onza 3 weeeks ago. I had a problem with the inner cable in the slide system slapping at the front of the guide -HARD! I shoot a 30" drawlength, which contributed to it. It took a while to figure where the shock was coming from, because it made my Trophy Taker dropaway rattle in it's housing, so I was chasing a ghost. I replaced the rest's launcher, then the spring before I saw the cable was getting beat up. I cut 3/8" off the carbon rod, put it back in the groove, and no more slapping. The string stop doesn't adjust all the way out to the string anymore, but it is still pretty quiet. My son just bought himself an Onza 3, and his drawlength is only 29". I checked his, and it was also hitting, but not nearly as bad. I trimmed it down, and all's well.

MLN1963
05-02-2011, 04:23 AM
I cut 3/8" off the carbon rod, put it back in the groove, and no more slapping. The string stop doesn't adjust all the way out to the string anymore, but it is still pretty quiet. My son just bought himself an Onza 3, and his drawlength is only 29". I checked his, and it was also hitting, but not nearly as bad. I trimmed it down, and all's well.

Make sure that the cable isn't hitting the back of the TRG until just before you are at full draw. If not you are putting undue stress on the bow.

wscywabbit
05-02-2011, 06:46 AM
Make sure that the cable isn't hitting the back of the TRG until just before you are at full draw. If not you are putting undue stress on the bow.

But you also need to make sure that the strings aren't pushing up against the end of the channel at rest, otherwise you'll get a loud slap when you release... its a balancing act lol!

nuker
05-02-2011, 07:42 PM
I cut off about 1/16" at a time until I was just touching the rear of the cable guide at full draw, and not hitting on the front end when released. Again, the string stop no longer reached the string when I did this, but it resolved the whole mess of the arrow flight, the noise, and the cable wear.
I'm boxing both bows up and sending them to Loesch for full grips. I like his grips, and the sticky back leather isn't an option in the Florida heat and moisture - slips all over the place. Shooting off the bare riser wears off the finish, and this bow is just too pretty for that.

wscywabbit
05-02-2011, 07:48 PM
I cut off about 1/16" at a time until I was just touching the rear of the cable guide at full draw, and not hitting on the front end when released. Again, the string stop no longer reached the string when I did this, but it resolved the whole mess of the arrow flight, the noise, and the cable wear.
I'm boxing both bows up and sending them to Loesch for full grips. I like his grips, and the sticky back leather isn't an option in the Florida heat and moisture - slips all over the place. Shooting off the bare riser wears off the finish, and this bow is just too pretty for that.

Nice, you'll have to post picks when you get it back!

Nemesis03
05-09-2011, 11:45 PM
Just felt like it kicked alot more, but there was 7 pounds draw difference between the two. Maybe there is some tuning to soften the shot on my fc. I do need a good stabilizer, i only have a sims s coil. I would like a 8 to 10 incher though
After sighting it in yesterday i don't really care. wind blowing, 40 yards, 3 out of 4 arrows touching each other. should change my handle to arrowrecker

I found that as little as 1/2 a twist in or out of a cable can make a HUGE difference in recoil. I thought the cams on my Silencer were in sync and the bow had quite a bit of recoil. After taking the modules off and marking them w/a pencil 1/4" from the ends, I found I had to put 1/2 a twist in the bottom cable and the bow instantly settled down. Not quite as dead in hand as my Alien X was or my Nemesis is but acceptable.

boobowbender
05-10-2011, 12:29 PM
I found that as little as 1/2 a twist in or out of a cable can make a HUGE difference in recoil. I thought the cams on my Silencer were in sync and the bow had quite a bit of recoil. After taking the modules off and marking them w/a pencil 1/4" from the ends, I found I had to put 1/2 a twist in the bottom cable and the bow instantly settled down. Not quite as dead in hand as my Alien X was or my Nemesis is but acceptable.

why mark 1/4 in from end? it took like seven twist to the top cable to make them perfect, could i go 3 1/2 in on top and then untwist 3 1/2 from bottom to do same thing? seven twist seamed pretty extreme from factory, but then i've heard some like the top a little faster. seems to have some significant cam lean now and have untwisted the top cam to original twist. i think i just need to start over. any pics or links would help. I don't have a press or draw board, but have been backing out limb bolts and turning cam to release cables. kind of a lot of work

Ehunter
05-10-2011, 02:07 PM
bowbender, marking the cams in from the end lets you see just how well the cams are timed. It shows how the cables are hitting better than just trying to judge off "the flat side of the mods". It's a more precise method of measuring the cam timing. For adjusting timing, you can take twists out of one cable, and add twists to another to get the cams in time. That's not a problem at all. One thing I have noticed, and someone else mentioned it before (I think it was gstudt) is that with the new TRG system, the more twists you have in the cables, the less wear they'll have passing through the TRG. Gotta keep it within reason though. If I can be of anymore help, just drop me a line.

Nemesis03
05-11-2011, 10:07 AM
For me, marking the cams gave me a reference point, something definative to look at while checking the distance between the mod. and each cable for timing. The lighting in my basement isn't the best and the cams have different cutouts creating kind of an "illusion". Once I marked the cams it became easier to see. I recomment starting over as I did. Thake the strings off and measure them exactly to spec. then re-install them. I then tuned to spec. as as far as axle length and brace. Then I timed the cams, took a poundage measurement looking for max. poundage + 3lbs.(63 or 73 in my case). At this point, my cables were about 1/8" away from each post at rest which seems to be about what everyone is shooting for. I did take a couple twists out of the shooting string in an attempt to "wrap" up the cams a little more as some suggest but I did not want to get too carried away wrapping as I like my limbs in one piece. This bow is still a little "jumpy" on the shot but I don't know if that's because I'm used to the Rytera Nemesis and Alien being so still of if I still have a little more work to do on the Silencer. The other day I did grind away some of the cable rod end to create more space between the cable at rest and the end of the TRG thinking maybe the cable was being driven into it upon release but it did not seem to make as big a difference as I hoped for. Taking the strings off and measuring to spec. helped alot though. Good luck. BTW, I chronoed mine at 64lbs., 328 grain arrow, 28" draw at about 297 I think so not too bad.

MLN1963
05-11-2011, 11:00 AM
Nemisis

When you have the cables and strings off how do you measure them? Do you have some kind of jig or something?

Thanks
Mark

Nemesis03
05-11-2011, 01:50 PM
On the outer edge of my workbench I have a seamstress tape measure stretched and nailed to it using a strong nail on the end to attach the string loop to then I use a scredriver or allen wrench inserted through the other end loop and pull tight to get the measurement.

Nemesis03
05-11-2011, 01:55 PM
One other thing pertaining to "wrapping" the cams if someone could enlighten me? Mine are about 1/8" from the posts(cables that is), I'm at 73lbs. maxed Should I add more twists to the cables to wrap them up even more? I just worry about too much limb pre load. I think 73 out of a 70lb. is plenty of twisting. Important to not, I'm spot on w/bow specs.

Nemesis03
05-11-2011, 02:25 PM
Sorry, I guess I have been getting a little off topic. My cable wear is a touch more than I would like to see but I have been keeping an eye on it and it has not gotten any worse now a few hundred shots in. It has a "flattened" look I guess I would call it but not fraying at all. You know what they say, every action has an opposite and equal reaction. Anyone know if any cables have flat out failed yet because of it? Although stiff, this cam system is a very smooth draw, 70 lbs. is 70lbs. regardless of the bow. If this TRG is a contributing factor to it's smoothness and the cable wear stays at a minimum, I'm sold!

MLN1963
05-11-2011, 05:41 PM
On the outer edge of my workbench I have a seamstress tape measure stretched and nailed to it using a strong nail on the end to attach the string loop to then I use a scredriver or allen wrench inserted through the other end loop and pull tight to get the measurement.

Thanks!

Next question. Are your nails supposed to be 1/4" in diameter?

Spiker
05-11-2011, 07:58 PM
They should be - to match the diameter of the post's on the cam's.

(You can build yourself a string jig (for measuring -not building strings) for about $20.
Pics at 11:00)

Nemesis03
05-11-2011, 10:16 PM
They should be - to match the diameter of the post's on the cam's.

(You can build yourself a string jig (for measuring -not building strings) for about $20.
Pics at 11:00)

Yes please! Always looking for a better tool.

MLN1963
05-12-2011, 05:49 AM
Yes please! Always looking for a better tool.

Ditto!!! Thanks!!!

Spiker
05-12-2011, 06:12 AM
http://martinarchery.com/mtechforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2724&d=1305198543

Spiker
05-12-2011, 06:13 AM
http://martinarchery.com/mtechforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2725&d=1305198557

Spiker
05-12-2011, 06:17 AM
http://martinarchery.com/mtechforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2723&d=1305198527

The big spring that puts the tension on the string (right at 100lbs) is an old Harley valve spring. The smaller one on the other side just keeps everything from flopping around when not in use - not really needed.

MLN1963
05-12-2011, 06:17 AM
Spiker

What is that track?

Please explain the two springs functions. I know the big one gives tension but why not just get the tension thru the nut pulling on the turn buckle?

Spiker
05-12-2011, 06:24 AM
The track is just uni-strut. It is used for holding electrical conduit onto walls/ceilings etc for construction. Lowes, Home Depot etc all carry it in the electrical section.
Not using a spring is just fine but when I built it I put my bow scale on it and tried various springs untill I found one that gave me 100lbs tension. Now all I have to do is hook the string on it and crank the nut down untill just before the spring reaches 'coil bind' - then I know I have the same amount of tension every time.
You could just put a scale between the static end and your string but it just makes you build the whole thing longer...

alex
05-12-2011, 07:05 AM
Great job, Scott! How long is the ...rail?

Spiker
05-19-2011, 06:18 AM
Rail is 10 foot. That is full length. I will cut 18"-24" off it, just havent gotten around to it.
It only needs to be a foot or so longer than the longest string you will put on it.

Destroyer
05-19-2011, 03:37 PM
Very neat Spiker! I'm impressed. :D