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MLN1963
04-25-2011, 12:26 PM
I have a 45#-60# FC400 and I'm working my way up to 60 pounds. I'm shooting 100 grain tips and 27" draw length. I am shooting GT Velocity Hunters with a 400 spine. The arrow shaft is 25.5" (26" with nock).

After looking at the charts I think I may over spined and should have gone with 500s instead. When I bought the arrows I didn't know what the length would be and went with a WAG. ;)

What does your fancy program say I should use? :confused:

HawgEnvy
04-25-2011, 02:15 PM
I don't have a fancy program,but it does sound like your over spined. However, it's better than being under spined. That's about all I can tell you. Arrow spine is something I haven't been able to comprehend fully,myself

gibson 787
04-25-2011, 02:16 PM
I have a 45#-60# FC400 and I'm working my way up to 60 pounds. I'm shooting 100 grain tips and 27" draw length. I am shooting GT Velocity Hunters with a 400 spine. The arrow shaft is 25.5" (26" with nock).

After looking at the charts I think I may over spined and should have gone with 500s instead. When I bought the arrows I didn't know what the length would be and went with a WAG. ;)

What does your fancy program say I should use? :confused:

If you are able to tune OK and the flight is good, I wouldn't worry, particularly if you plan to increase the draw weight. You can reduce stiffness a little by replacing the 100 gr tips with 125s or heavier.

archerx7
04-25-2011, 04:17 PM
The 400 is way too stiff at 25.5", it gets close to correct spine for your setup at 60# and cut to 28". On the bright side the 500 is way too weak, even cut at 25.5".

If your getting decent arrow flight now, don't worry about it as you'll probably be ready for new arrows before season starts anyhow. For future reference, always run the arrows on a program before cutting or cut them longer than you think they should be. You can always cut more off but you can't ever add more.

OT2 does have a free trial version that you can download from their website, plus the full version is really pretty inexpensive for all the info it gives you, plus you get free upgrades for the 1st several years.

cyclepath
04-25-2011, 04:27 PM
This should give you everything you need to know about your setup http://www.eastonarchery.com/

MLN1963
04-25-2011, 05:33 PM
The 400 is way too stiff at 25.5", it gets close to correct spine for your setup at 60# and cut to 28". On the bright side the 500 is way too weak, even cut at 25.5".

If your getting decent arrow flight now, don't worry about it as you'll probably be ready for new arrows before season starts anyhow. For future reference, always run the arrows on a program before cutting or cut them longer than you think they should be. You can always cut more off but you can't ever add more.

OT2 does have a free trial version that you can download from their website, plus the full version is really pretty inexpensive for all the info it gives you, plus you get free upgrades for the 1st several years.

If 400 is too much and 500 is too little how do you end up in between? Extra length to make them flex more? It seems like a shame to be pushing extra weight if that is the case. Newbie here so go easy on me.

SonnyThomas
04-25-2011, 06:02 PM
I'm with Gibson. Good accuracy, shoot it. I have kids that shoot at the shop with arrows they find, arrows way over spined and the kids are having a ball and amazingly their accuracy is outstanding. One kid is maxed out at 45 pounds and is shooting 60/75 CX arrows and he puts them in the bull's eye. On the other hand, a CXL 150 is said to be too weak of spine for my setup and I have outstanding accuracy.

archerx7
04-25-2011, 06:10 PM
If 400 is too much and 500 is too little how do you end up in between? Extra length to make them flex more? It seems like a shame to be pushing extra weight if that is the case. Newbie here so go easy on me.

There is a lot that can go into picking the proper arrow, whats the arrow going to be used for?, do you want a light, medium or heavy arrow ? Small, standard or large diameter shaft ? DL, DW ? What type of point, screw in or glue in, what is the prefered point weight ? What type of fletching do you want to use, feathers, vanes or fobs ? Are you going to use wraps, if so what size and how much do they weigh?

These are all questions that I ask when someone comes in looking for new arrows and they all are relevent as they all affect the spine of the arrow. Most all arrow manufacturers will have several options in each category and spine to chose from and will allow the shooter to get the correct arrow for his choosen use, whether it be a light arrow for 3D or a mid weight arrow for deer or a heavy arrow for larger game.

If weight is a concern, you'll have to pick a lighter shaft like the GT Ultra light or Victory Vforce HV or one of Eastons lightwieght shafts, just make sure the arrow is going to be spined correctly and weigh a minimum of 5gr. per pound.

MLN1963
04-25-2011, 06:17 PM
If you are able to tune OK and the flight is good, I wouldn't worry, particularly if you plan to increase the draw weight. You can reduce stiffness a little by replacing the 100 gr tips with 125s or heavier.

I don't have a means to paper tune. Hell, I can barely go out and shoot at my targets due to the damn spring winds. I used the "quick tune" method by using vertical and horizontal lines on my target from 10 to 25 yards. I know I need longer distances but with these dang winds I wouldn't know if I was making improvements or not.

How do I know if my flight is good? My arrows seem to all stick in the target straight and I don't see any weird flight. I don't notice any tail wag or purposing but I do admit it is hard to see much of these fast moving arrows!

I can pick up some 125 grn. field points to try but how will I really know if they are helping or not?

cyclepath
04-25-2011, 07:35 PM
There is a lot that can go into picking the proper arrow, whats the arrow going to be used for?, do you want a light, medium or heavy arrow ? Small, standard or large diameter shaft ? DL, DW ? What type of point, screw in or glue in, what is the prefered point weight ? What type of fletching do you want to use, feathers, vanes or fobs ? Are you going to use wraps, if so what size and how much do they weigh?

These are all questions that I ask when someone comes in looking for new arrows and they all are relevent as they all affect the spine of the arrow. Most all arrow manufacturers will have several options in each category and spine to chose from and will allow the shooter to get the correct arrow for his choosen use, whether it be a light arrow for 3D or a mid weight arrow for deer or a heavy arrow for larger game.

If weight is a concern, you'll have to pick a lighter shaft like the GT Ultra light or Victory Vforce HV or one of Eastons lightwieght shafts, just make sure the arrow is going to be spined correctly and weigh a minimum of 5gr. per pound.

Archerx7 is correct with this statement. If you are tuning your arrows for your bow you need to take all this into consideration. If you are just buying arrows out of a box and having the pro shop cut them to size and put in the inserts your in the 95% of archers. You didn't say where you were right now for your dw but I will tell you that I would rather shoot a heavy arrow than a light arrow. Your bow will be quieter and less stress on the bow as well. Too light of an arrow is almost like dry firing your bow, not good. As mentioned you should maintain a minimum of 5 gr. per pound. Maybe get yourself a grain scale, 15-20 bucks, well worth the money. great for weighing tips, arrows, broadheads and many other things. Lots to take in for such a simple question. How far down the rabbit hole do you want to go!! LOL

gibson 787
04-25-2011, 07:36 PM
I don't have a means to paper tune. Hell, I can barely go out and shoot at my targets due to the damn spring winds. I used the "quick tune" method by using vertical and horizontal lines on my target from 10 to 25 yards. I know I need longer distances but with these dang winds I wouldn't know if I was making improvements or not.

How do I know if my flight is good? My arrows seem to all stick in the target straight and I don't see any weird flight. I don't notice any tail wag or purposing but I do admit it is hard to see much of these fast moving arrows!

I can pick up some 125 grn. field points to try but how will I really now if they are helping or not?

From the above, it sounds to me like all is well, at the end of the day if your arrows are going where you want them to go, I'd say no need to stress out over the possibility that they might be a tad over or under spined. :) Truth is, bad arrow flight and bad results from paper tuning are very often caused by bad form. If you're grouping them satisfactorily, then all's good in my book. Hope the weather gets better for you.

MLN1963
04-25-2011, 07:47 PM
According to the component weights listed on Gold Tip my arrows are about 330 grains which is 5.5 per pound at 60. I'm 4 turns out so probably 50 pounds or so?

I want kill zone accuracy. I'm not headed to Las Vegas to shoot spots at this point.

SonnyThomas
04-26-2011, 05:24 AM
According to the component weights listed on Gold Tip my arrows are about 330 grains which is 5.5 per pound at 60. I'm 4 turns out so probably 50 pounds or so?
I want kill zone accuracy. I'm not headed to Las Vegas to shoot spots at this point.

5.5 grs per pound. This really doesn't mean anything except being legal for shooting in IBO events and staying within warranty issues.

MLN1963
04-26-2011, 05:55 AM
5.5 grs per pound. This really doesn't mean anything except being legal for shooting in IBO events and staying within warranty issues.

Someone mentioned weight and grains per pound so I told them where I'm at. Thats all.

Spiker
04-26-2011, 06:19 AM
If 400 is too much and 500 is too little how do you end up in between? Extra length to make them flex more? It seems like a shame to be pushing extra weight if that is the case. Newbie here so go easy on me.

Having the spine correct is more important to accuracy than the other factors.
I would use the same arrows but cut them longer and use a heavier point, if neccessary, to get the spine right.
As far as extra weight - remember that a lighter arrow also slows down faster so even tho a 25gn or whatever heavier arrow will leave the bow slower - it will still be going the same speed as the lighter arrow out at the target distance.

bfisher
04-26-2011, 08:11 AM
Having the spine correct is more important to accuracy than the other factors.
I would use the same arrows but cut them longer and use a heavier point, if neccessary, to get the spine right.
As far as extra weight - remember that a lighter arrow also slows down faster so even tho a 25gn or whatever heavier arrow will leave the bow slower - it will still be going the same speed as the lighter arrow out at the target distance.

Spiker,

I know what you were trying to say with this post so take this little ribbing. How do you expect him to cut those arrows and make them longer?" DUH!!!! LOL.

Spiker
04-26-2011, 01:55 PM
Ok - use GT Velocity 400's but cut longer. :)

p.s. Nice to hear some humor from you Barry, your usually pretty grumpy.

MLN1963
04-26-2011, 02:35 PM
I still have the parts I cut off the arrows. I could put a piece of dowel or something inside the pieces and glue them back together. I might need something really strong like Gorilla glue though. What length should I cut them to after that?

gibson 787
04-26-2011, 02:58 PM
I still have the parts I cut off the arrows. I could put a piece of dowel or something inside the pieces and glue them back together. I might need something really strong like Gorilla glue though. What length should I cut them to after that?

PLEASE DON"T DO THAT :eek:

bfisher
04-26-2011, 05:44 PM
I still have the parts I cut off the arrows. I could put a piece of dowel or something inside the pieces and glue them back together. I might need something really strong like Gorilla glue though. What length should I cut them to after that?

Now see what you started Spiker? Giving a guy some dumb ideas.

MLN, maybe you could try an appropriate sized piece of aluminum shaft and epoxy it all together. OH darn, I'm starting to sound like Spiker.

Disclaimer: Don't try this at home...........Never mind anyway. There isn't any .246 OD aluminums. Closest would be 1614 and they are .250".

MLN1963
04-26-2011, 07:31 PM
I can turn a piece of billet aluminum to .246" on a metal lathe and insert it between the the parts. You are right, epoxy may be better than Gorilla glue. I just hope it doesn't throw the FOC off too much.

martinbowhunter
04-26-2011, 10:45 PM
I can turn a piece of billet aluminum to .246" on a metal lathe and insert it between the the parts. You are right, epoxy may be better than Gorilla glue. I just hope it doesn't throw the FOC off too much.

No offence but, i don't think that would be a really good idea. Also i think it will throw other stuff off as well. I would just put some 125 grain field tips on the arrows you have and see if that helps.

justin
04-27-2011, 03:16 AM
lol!!! im thinking we are just being funny at this point! although i love reading about spine.....

archerx7
04-27-2011, 03:19 AM
No offence but, i don't think that would be a really good idea. Also i think it will throw other stuff off as well. I would just put some 125 grain field tips on the arrows you have and see if that helps.

X2 Just put some 125gr points on for now and shoot them, when ready for some new arrows just make sure they are cut to the correct length so they spine out good.

bfisher
04-27-2011, 03:37 AM
lol!!! im thinking we are just being funny at this point! although i love reading about spine.....

I would hope it's just for fun at this point. I kinda like the idea of the piece of aluminum billet though. It could dramatically increase the FOC, almost like Carbon Expresss with their weight forward technology. Of course that piece of billet isn't going to bend much so isn't going to help with any spine issue.

I know years ago when aluminum was the norm if we needed to add 1/4" to 1/2" to our shaft length (arrow shaft, fellows) we would cut that much from a trashed shaft and slide it down over the shank of our glue-in target points and then hot melt the point into the arrow.

NAH, I ain't doin that with carbon.

SonnyThomas
04-27-2011, 06:16 AM
I figure that cutting a arrow twice and it still being too short has got to go. :(

Working on plans for a variable length arrow. I'm going to make millions :D

MLN1963
04-27-2011, 10:37 AM
PLEASE DON"T DO THAT :eek:


Now see what you started Spiker? Giving a guy some dumb ideas.
Disclaimer: Don't try this at home


No offence but, i don't think that would be a really good idea. Also i think it will throw other stuff off as well. I would just put some 125 grain field tips on the arrows you have and see if that helps.


lol!!! im thinking we are just being funny at this point! although i love reading about spine.....


X2 Just put some 125gr points on for now and shoot them, when ready for some new arrows just make sure they are cut to the correct length so they spine out good.


I would hope it's just for fun at this point.


Okay guys, the bit about spicing them back together was just a joke. Really! That is why the funny face was there. I even sent Barry a PM that said I was fishing but no one was biting. Okay, a few bit!!!

So y'all can go back to thinking I'm just dumb, not an idiot. :cool:;):p

Sonny, no matter how many times I cut this arrow it is still too short!

archerx7
04-27-2011, 10:42 AM
Okay guys, the bit about spicing them back together was just a joke. Really! That is why the funny face was there. I even sent Barry a PM that said I was fishing but no one was biting. Okay, a few bit!!!

So y'all can go back to thinking I'm just dumb, not an idiot. :cool:;):p

Sonny, no matter how many times I cut this arrow it is still too short!

Thats because your cutting from the wrong end.:p

gravedigger
04-27-2011, 11:21 AM
yall are just trying to dig your self's out of a hole huh.:D:p

MLN1963
04-27-2011, 11:27 AM
Nope, I was really just trying to get a reaction. I'll be honest though, I'm disappointed because I was trying to get Hutch and Arrow Splitter on this. I figured AS might blow a gasket. LOL That is why I waited so long. I guess they are too busy having fun in Oklahoma.

bfisher
04-27-2011, 04:25 PM
I could research it, but what are they doing in OK anyway?

MLN1963
04-27-2011, 05:04 PM
Visiting friends I think.

justin
04-28-2011, 03:24 AM
i shortened some aarows up the other day, an refleched. i love how they fly!!! i need to weigh them though, as im guessing 370ish.... maybe less. it does look like im shooting a jr aarow now though, at 26"

justin
04-28-2011, 06:59 PM
lol that was a good guess... got batterys for my aarow scale and they came in at 367!! perfect!!!