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Montalaar
04-26-2011, 03:19 AM
I have a problem: My ShaodwCat must be way out of tune and i cannot get my arrows to the 70m distance. With my RazorX i got the samre arrows up to 90m and had way room left to move my sight lower. Now i cannot even move my scope lower and i barely hit the 40m target.

60lbs
32" draw
ATA is on specs
Cams rotate evenly and stop a tad before they reach the bottom of the module so i have a little less Letoff and a shorter valley.

Centershot is way to the right. If i move the arrow more to the left so that it is in a line with sight and string i need to move my sight out to the left alot. I tried to set the CS up via walkback tuning. 5 - 40m in 5m steps so i get a flat line. This is what i came up with. I am not so happy with that... Nocking point is purely guessed and parallel to the shelf/Berger holes.

Any ideas please?

Spiker
04-26-2011, 04:22 AM
What is the distance from the bridge between the berger holes to the center of your arrow with the bow at rest?
Have you tried moving the nock point down a bit to see what happens?

Montalaar
04-26-2011, 05:07 AM
I moved the rest up a tad yesterday and it changed something near to nothing. Maybe around 3" higher point of impact at 40m distance. I cannot measure the distance you asked for right now, but i will do this thursday night.

SonnyThomas
04-26-2011, 05:39 AM
At 60 pounds and 32" of draw I'd think you could shoot well past 100 meters. My nocking point and rest makes my arrow center to the Berger hole. Last I tried any distance I had my Shadowcat set for indoors, 50 pounds, and with 28 1/2" draw and could nail a 54 yard bull's eye with no effort on the bow's part. My arrow, though, weighed 331 grs. 70 meters would be right at 76 yards so 22 more yards seems well within what my bow could reach.

Montalaar
04-26-2011, 06:58 AM
I know that it should be possible. As mentioned before i shot up to 90m on a regular basis with a Razor-X with Nitrous Cams and slightly lower draw weight. As my arrows weigh only 400 grain i cannot find a reason for not getting the whole thing to shoot again. There is just a half inch left between the arrow shaft and the scope housing at this time and i can barely shoot 40m with it.

bfisher
04-26-2011, 07:57 AM
Simon, I may have the answer but not the solution. The two bows have different geometry so string angle at full draw will be different. I would guess the ShadowCat's string angle would be more acute. Now, what do you use for references when you anchor? If you use your nose on the string then it's possible that the more acute string angle causes you to anchor higher which will call for a lower peep and a sight that is proportionally lower. That long draw length doesn't help either, but you're stuck with that. It's simply a matter of too high an anchor for that particular bow.

Edit......... How far is your sight extended from the bow? If you're using an extended target sight you might consider moving the sight back a couple notches.

I hope I'm explaining this so you understand it and I might be wrong, but it's just my thoughts on the subject.

I know, for comparison, that I can easily get 80 yards (approx. 70m) on my Alien Z at only 46# and a 27" draw with an HHA slider sight so it's not a matter of the bow's speed. It's just because of my natural anchor and the angle at which the arrow leaves the bow. Just measured and there is about 2" between my arrow and the sight housing with the sight set on 60 yards.

cyclepath
04-26-2011, 09:43 AM
I have a problem: My ShaodwCat must be way out of tune and i cannot get my arrows to the 70m distance. With my RazorX i got the samre arrows up to 90m and had way room left to move my sight lower.


Centershot is way to the right. If i move the arrow more to the left so that it is in a line with sight and string i need to move my sight out to the left alot. I tried to set the CS up via walkback tuning. 5 - 40m in 5m steps so i get a flat line. This is what i came up with. I am not so happy with that... Nocking point is purely guessed and parallel to the shelf/Berger holes.

Any ideas please?

It sounds like you have a couple problems going on here. First thing I would ask is who setup your other bow? First thing I would look at is your nock point. Are you using a d loop or a nock point? Are you shooting a release or fingers? Have someone look at your arrow with you at full draw. Sounds like your nocking point is way high. If this is the case then your peep sight will also be high, compounding your problem. See if your local pro shop can help you with your problem. Also, I don't believe your bow was made to get to a 32" draw. 30 maybe 31" at most.

Montalaar
04-26-2011, 10:04 AM
Barry,

i thought about that also and tried out a different anchor, does not help that much at all. Actually it is a nice side effect to have the string touching the nose, but i anchor always the same way. Knuckles of my right hand touching my jaw bone. Not the exact same way but kind of like dudley in this picture:
http://www.fieldarcher.org/gallery/albums/mugshots_USA/John_Dudley_001.jpg
This is the same anchor i had with my Razor-X and the effective string angle is not that different. As the NOS_Cams produce a higher virtual ATA at full draw than the CAT does. The main thing that bothers me is that i have this weird centershot setting... :/

cyclepath,
i always set up my bows myself. And as you may can guess as i wrote this handy loop-tutorial for this forum.. i shoot with a very short loop. You should check the specs for the SahdowCat again. My bow was a custom built one in 2011 and i can guarantee you that every ShadowCat with CAT2.0 Cams will get a max draw of 32.75" when setup with the correct string/cable lengths and set to 41.5" ATA. That does not help me.

alex
04-26-2011, 01:40 PM
Simon,that's quite mysterious. I guess you have checked the peep?

Spiker
04-26-2011, 01:48 PM
Simon- I know you may not be with your SC untill Thursday but the center of your arrow should be 21.5 - 22.5mm from the riser at rest at the point inbetween the berger holes.

SonnyThomas
04-26-2011, 02:04 PM
Bfisher hit on the peep location. I have 5 5/8" from top of arrow nock to center of the peep on my Shadowcat.

bfisher
04-26-2011, 05:35 PM
Well Simon, I don't know what else to tell you. I looked at the pic of Dudley and that's pretty much just how I anchor, with the exception being that instead of using a string loop I use a rope release so my loop is essentially on the release and I attach it right against the underside of the nock. Wit this being the case the measurement from nocking point to my peep is like Sonny's. About 5 1/2" plus or minus 1/8" depending on the string angle.

Frankly, knowing a little about how long you've been around and your experience I'm a bit surprised you are having this problem. Guess it just shows that no matter how long we've been at it we'll never know it all. I'm sure you'll get it worked out, but keep us posted.

cherryju1ce
04-28-2011, 10:38 AM
My advice...go back to the Razor-X with Nitrous cams. Yes, I'm being honest and serious; the Nitrous cams and Elite limbs created a combination that was exceptionally easy to tune. Plus, you've already proved that that bow was capable of shooting out to the distances you're looking for. I'm shooting an old MV2 Elite and you literally couldn't pry that thing from my hands. Simply put, they're just better than what's being produced now.

Montalaar
04-28-2011, 10:50 AM
Yeah, i liked the Razor-X. But i sold most parts of it. I have a ShadowCat with NOS-X-Cams sitting here but i have no time to finish it.

Spiker, i will measure it tomorrow. Just came home a few minutes ago and will slip into my bed within the next seconds... Good night.

SonnyThomas
04-28-2011, 11:01 AM
My advice...go back to the Razor-X with Nitrous cams. Yes, I'm being honest and serious; the Nitrous cams and Elite limbs created a combination that was exceptionally easy to tune. Plus, you've already proved that that bow was capable of shooting out to the distances you're looking for. I'm shooting an old MV2 Elite and you literally couldn't pry that thing from my hands. Simply put, they're just better than what's being produced now.

76 yards and a 32" draw length with 60 pounds of draw weight. His rig should nail 100 yards easily.

I just checked my Shadowcat - max poundage is a hair over 53 pounds. Sure Loc set for 100 yards I have 1 1/2" of clearance and this with a 2 1/8" diameter lens housing.

Montalaar
04-29-2011, 01:28 AM
Center of arrow is around 2,25 cm - 22,5mm away from the deep part where the berger holes are. There is a region that is a bit deeper than the rest of the shelf. Oh well. It points far to the right anyways. You know those stripes that are in the VEM shelf? The arrow is far away from being parallel with them.

Arrow is nearly parallel to the riser in terms of height now. Just checked it. Oh, and i played a bit with Cam timing. Bottom Cam was a bit less rotated than top cam, changed that now vice versa. Reduced ATA by 6mm which is around 1/4". Bow draws smooth, has around 65% LO now. Maybe i can try it out next Monday.

Spiker
04-29-2011, 08:26 AM
Sounds like your centershot is correct or very close. On both my AX's, my AZ and my Firecat - the arrow points right (right hand bows) when at rest and is not parallel with the lines on the shelf v.e.m.
I think if you get the nock point and peep height set right you will get the distance out of it.

SonnyThomas
04-30-2011, 04:42 PM
Centershot is way to the right. Any ideas please?


Barry,

The main thing that bothers me is that i have this weird centershot setting... :/




Center of arrow is around 2,25 cm - 22,5mm away from the deep part where the berger holes are. It points far to the right anyways. You know those stripes that are in the VEM shelf? The arrow is far away from being parallel with them.


Center shot. My arrows are virtually straight with the lines on the rubber plate of the shelf. I've tried arrow too weak and too stiff and the arrow goes straight. I'd measure my arrow from the riser, but it's packed in the truck for a 3D tomorrow.

Have you tried eye balling in horizontal center shot? If I set center shot with our EZ Eye laser I'd have the arrow on the right side of my riser - that far right. Shadowcat just aren't machined for lasers.