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View Full Version : My home-made TRG for older bows (like my 08 Firecat and possibly others)



Rockyhud
05-08-2011, 11:29 AM
Well, after several months of shooting with the Martin TRG/SOS combo on my 08 Firecat I've come to the conclusion this system isn't usable long term on my bow and possibly others that don't have Nitro cams. The reason for saying this is I noticed accelerated cable wear on the down cable in the area it passed through the TRG that hadn't been there before the TRG. This might have to do with the way the cables wrap around the CAT cams being somewhat different than Nitro cams.

About this same time I also found a thread on AT talking about a new product called the Tilt Tamer (http://www.tilttamer.com/). Upon viewing the photos and video it was quickly apparent this was designed to perform the same function as the TRG and BowTech's FLXGuard. The main difference is the Tilt Tamer uses a standard 3/8" guard rod with a machined aluminum block mounted near the end that positions a short second rod that's angled toward the string and uses a "standard" slide to contain the cables and control their movement toward centershot along the second rod as the string is drawn. The aluminum block also allows easy adjustment of the system to accommodate variances that are likely to be found from one bow to another.

Looking at this further it appeared the second rod was angled at the same or nearly the same angle as the slot in the TRG. So, being one who looks for simple designs to resolve whatever, I decided I would see if I could use a solid 3/8" aluminum rod and bend it to match the angle and position as the TRG and its slot. Below are some photos of what turned out. Keep in mind it's not "pretty" in that there are a few surface nicks and scrapes caused by the bench vise I used to hold the rod while I bent it, mostly in the bend areas. In a nutshell I'm so far pleased with results.

I used one idea from the Tilt Tamer in reversing the orientation of the slide as to which end the short and long slot usually are positioned. This is due to the angle of the rod end and how it affects the containment of the cables. Using this slide orientation positions the cables so they lay much more in the same plane with the cams instead of the down cable being pulling to the right of the up cable as the TRG does. Using my home-made TRG the cables are more in a straight line between cams at full draw than when I used the Martin TRG. This apparently reduced the torque applied to the riser and cams more than the Martin TRG as I also had to adjust my sight pin aperture significantly to the right as well as realign my No-Peep. This coincides with the information for the need to adjust the sight on a bow after installing the Tilt Tamer.

I'm still tweaking my sight and No-Peep to get it right on but I'm close to the final position now. Shots from 20 and 30 yards are showing good and consistent grouping. A little more time getting my sight and No-Peep adjusted and I believe I'll be set. The last things I'll do will be to paint the front section flat black (leaving the section where the slides runs unpainted) and possibly put my Saunders Hyper-Glide Slide on in place of the OEM slide that came with my bow.

Rockyhud
05-08-2011, 11:37 AM
Here are a few more pics I couldn't include in the original post. Also, in case anyone's wondering, yes, there is plenty of clearance for my vanes. Once the arrow has traveled forward enough so the vanes are in proximity of the slide or rod the slide and cables have been moved to the right so there's about a 1/4" or more clearance. The end of the rod is above and right of the shaft and will never be an issue for clearance.

SonnyThomas
05-08-2011, 01:01 PM
American ingenuity. You gotta love it. Well, Rocky, I hope it works out to the best.

I think I put this in a thread once; At one time the standard guide rod was either made to flex or it was weak enough that it flexed. I'm thinking this was on my 1999 Golden Eagle Evolution or Pearson. Either 1999 or 2000 and switched to Hoyt in 2000 and remained with Hoyt until summer of 2010.

cyclepath
05-08-2011, 01:25 PM
Very nice. Looks like you copied the angle of the martin slide. How much difference has it made and have you had to do alot of tweeking on it? Checked out the site you gave to see what this was all about. It looks like they just attached a block with an angle for a different slide to the stock slide. 70 bucks! Keep us up to date with how this is working for you and if there is a down side to this. Looks pretty simple but I'm sure it's not.

Rockyhud
05-08-2011, 02:15 PM
In concept and in photos it is pretty simple. The actual effort in fabricating this rod just took a little thought as to how and where to make the bends, a bench vise, a propane torch to slightly soften it for bending, a hack saw, metal file and pliers to make it a reality. I put the Martin TRG next to my rod to show that I did indeed try to follow the angle as closely as possible. I'll definitely report my findings as I get more time with it.

SonnyThomas
05-08-2011, 02:53 PM
GAHHHHH! :D I just notice your loop. Both knots are on the same side. Supposed to be one one way and one the other. Hey! If it works stay with it. :)

Speedykills
05-08-2011, 03:58 PM
Very cool piece of work,looks good.But when i look at the trg it doesnt look like it could cause any wear on strings and cables.I wonder if its the material the strings are made of!.

MLN1963
05-08-2011, 05:11 PM
But when i look at the trg it doesnt look like it could cause any wear on strings and cables.I wonder if its the material the strings are made of!.

This has crossed my mind too. Maybe the trophy string material and the TRG plastic cause some kind of friction? Sorta like wetting your fingers to flip pages causes grip while normally water reduces grip.

Speedykills
05-08-2011, 06:54 PM
This has crossed my mind too. Maybe the trophy string material and the TRG plastic cause some kind of friction? Sorta like wetting your fingers to flip pages causes grip while normally water reduces grip.

Its just really a modified cable guard,it looks like same kinda slick material,i do know for a fact some strings and cables are slicker than others.

Rockyhud
05-08-2011, 07:10 PM
Trophy string material? The cables and string I had in place with the Martin TRG was the original Martin Helix string set that came with the bow. My thinking is there might have been more tension on the down cable than it could stand due to it being pulled so far to the right (further away from centershot). That's why I said it may be the Nitro cams are different enough for the Martin TRG to work and why Martin considered it incompatible with older bows and cams. When I talked with Joel prior to buying the TRG/SOS that was his short and non-technical explanation for not advising its use. With the Tilt Tamer and hopefully my home-made TRG and the way the cables run through the slide, I think there's a better chance of this problem not presenting itself, at least not nearly as quickly as I seemed to experience with the TRG.

Don't get me wrong, I think the TRG is a great idea and I love the simplicity of its design. It's just my experience with MY bow and cams that leads me to conclude it's likely not the best solution for bows that aren't designed for its use. And as I said, I'll definitely be reporting on how this works, good or bad, as I get more time with it. Needless to say I hope it works well so I can benefit from it and hopefully others can too if they decide to incorporate the idea.

I know I got one of the d-loop knots on the wrong side. Shortly before installing the home-made TRG I also changed out the string and cables set and was working through tuning and syncing the cams and draw cycle as well as the new TRG so I wasn't too concerned with the d-loop at the time I installed it, but rest assured it will be tied correct/balanced once I get everything tweaked and working correct.

Destroyer
05-08-2011, 08:39 PM
Well done Rockyhud!!! Love to see this sort of thing. :D

I don't think it will cause problems with the string hitting it, if its in the same position as the original there shouldn't be a problem. With finger release there might be, not with a release aid. You might be able to make some $$ selling them if it works out.

alex
05-09-2011, 01:45 AM
Looks very good! I may try it if i have the mood for something new :)

MartinTracer
05-09-2011, 06:11 AM
Rockyhud can you give ot the final angle of the rod?

cyclepath
05-09-2011, 06:11 AM
Just curious Rocky, after looking at the tilttamer again I noticed that it just comes straight off the cable slide at an angle without bending the stock rod. What was the reason for putting the bends in yours?

bfisher
05-09-2011, 08:20 AM
Just curious Rocky, after looking at the tilttamer again I noticed that it just comes straight off the cable slide at an angle without bending the stock rod. What was the reason for putting the bends in yours?

The TiltTamer has a straight rod that a machined bracket is secured to. From that bracket a second, shorter piece of rod clamp at an angle toward the string onto which the cable slide rides.

By bending the rod what Rocky has done is made a one-piece unit, elminating the need for a 3 piece contraption. Sort of a custom fit if you will.

The only advantage to the TiltTamer is that having those three pieces it can be adjusted to fit nearly any bow whereas Rocky's is a custom fit. I can see an advantage to this as there are less parts to possibly rattle loose or shift. And it's got to be a whole lot cheaper than $70, right Rock?

SonnyThomas
05-09-2011, 10:08 AM
The TiltTamer And it's got to be a whole lot cheaper than $70, right Rock?

I saw the price on the TiltTamer and said; "ain't no way."

MLN1963
05-09-2011, 10:17 AM
I might have to "upgrade" my Firecat 400's OEM TRG system to Rocky's version. :cool:

I bet there would be a lot of cable twisting involved to get the A2A right.

MLN1963
05-09-2011, 10:20 AM
Darton uses a curved cable rod and that is what I thought about trying to duplicate when I was looking at getting a non-TRG equipped bow. Now Rocky gave me an idea for my kids bow whenever I get him one. Thanks Rocky!

Rockyhud
05-09-2011, 11:40 AM
Good explanation of what the Tilt Tamer is, how it's constructed and why, Barry. The Tilt Tamer is designed to accommodate lots of different bows and allow for clearance for vanes and such to be set specific for the bow it's installed on. Mine is likely to be unique and usable only on my bow or one VERY similar with regard to the length and bends and where they occur. For someone who wants a device of this type and either isn't mechanically inclined or doesn't want to spend time fabricating one I think the TT has merit and appears to be well thought out and made. The rod material is definitely a lot less money than buying the TT kit - you just have to spend some time making it into what you need it to be.

MLN1963, I must be missing something regarding your comment about cable twisting to get A2A right because of using this type device. It didn't change at all and shouldn't have. The cables are pulled to the right almost in the same location at brace with my TRG as they would be with a straight cable guard rod.

MartinTracer, I can get the angle for you and everyone else easily. I'll post it as soon as I can (next day or so). That might help others who don't have a Martin TRG to model it from if you're trying to fab one up.

If anyone has any questions about this I'll be happy to provide as much as I can if you're thinking about making one yourself. What I can advise is to use the photos I posted as they should provide some decent visual clues about how it was made. As I recall I started with a 12" long section of rod material (cut from a longer rod bought at Lowe's). I used a bench vise to hold the section of rod that goes into the riser and used a propane torch to apply just enough heat (don't get it even close to glowing hot) to help make the bends in the rod. I started the bends far enough from the tail end (end nearest string) so I wouldn't cause any curved interference with the slide and so the slide would come to rest at brace near the same location as with the straight guard rod. Once I had the shape/angles I wanted I used a small metal file to touch up some of the nicks in the bend areas that were caused by my pliers and vise jaws. I also filed the ends of the rod to make it easier to insert into the riser and to make sure there were no burrs for the slide to hang up on as it travels back and forth during the draw cycle.

If a person has a pipe or tubing bender with very small mandrels they might be able to make the bends in the rod easier and without causing the surface nicks mine incurred - the sharp edges of the vise jaws and teeth in the pliers caused them in mine. The main area I wanted to ensure was not marred and was smooth as possible was where the slide moves and I was able to accomplish this.

As I said earlier I still have some tweaking to do. I saved a copy of the Tilt Tamer install guide to my computer and will use it to reference setting mine up. One things I noticed right off the bat was the difference in natural torque applied to the riser (as in reduction of torque) with this device. My No-Peep showed this and my initial shots at 20 yards were impacting about 6-8" to the right. I adjusted the sight aperture to the right quite a bit and adjusted my No-Peep so it now aligns like it used to. I think I need to adjust my rest slightly to the right too as I noticed a little tail left wriggle as arrows left the bow (they didn't have nearly as much noticeable before). I also have a slight cable contact with my Limb Saver string decelerator module at full draw which I didn't have with the Martin TRG. This is apparently common when using the TT as well as the kit comes with a replacement STS rubber dampener that has a side cut out for clearance. I'm going to put my original STS rubber dampener on and cut it to see how much material I would need to remove from the Limb Saver modules so I can make a clean looking modification to it that won't impair its performance or reliability.

Like I said above, the TT kit would be easier but costlier where as my method costs far less but takes a lot more time and effort to accomplish the same.

MLN1963
05-09-2011, 11:58 AM
MLN1963, I must be missing something regarding your comment about cable twisting to get A2A right because of using this type device. It didn't change at all and shouldn't have. The cables are pulled to the right almost in the same location at brace with my TRG as they would be with a straight cable guard rod.


In your instance this is true. In my example I believe there would be a difference. On my OEM TRG the down cable is actully well right of center of the cable guard (take a look at your third picture for reference). With your set up placed on my bow I think cable twisting would be required to get the bow back in specs. Will I do something like this? Probably not unless I keep fraying the down cable. When my bow gets back it should have new cables so I will know if the TRG is causing fraying again.

bfisher
05-09-2011, 03:37 PM
Hey Rocky, Next time you do this or anybody else that tries, instead of using pliers or vice grips to make the bends you could use a length of pipe and just slide it down over the end to the point where you want to make the bend. Being as the rods are 3/8" a piece of 3/8" pipe might work. If that's too tight then 1/2" pipe would work. Maybe something about 18" long for leverage.

Rockyhud
05-10-2011, 05:42 AM
Thanks for the tip Barry. Also, at the request of MartinTracer, I measured the angle of the rod section nearest the string last night as well as the Martin TRG. Mine ended up being about 27-degrees as best I could measure without removing the rod and the Martin TRG was found to be 30-degrees.

bfisher
05-10-2011, 07:26 AM
Another question. At rest just how much fletching clearance is there with the TRG. I haven't seen one yet, but the pics posted by some others suggests to me that there must be a lot of clearance as the cables seem to be being pulled at a pretty good angle. I wonder if this could be reduced as I see no need to pull cables any more than necessary. That's why I changed the angle of the CCS on my Alien Z. I didn't measure mine, but it looked like the cables were being pulled to the side at least a half inch more than necessary. IMO all this does is create more cam lean (limb twist) and friction within the system. Any amount this can be reduced would probably help with the cables tracking in the modules better, too.

Doesn't it make you wonder who designs these things? Here we are finding possible better solutions to their cable wear and cam lean issues and we aren't bow designers or engineers. Just dummies that shoot bows and can see with the naked eye what's going on.

MLN1963
05-10-2011, 10:11 AM
Doesn't it make you wonder who designs these things? Here we are finding possible better solutions to their cable wear and cam lean issues and we aren't bow designers or engineers. Just dummies that shoot bows and can see with the naked eye what's going on.

Winner winner chicken dinner! We can all pitch in and start Forum Archery Company. It would be a pretty good product if we could get it to market! :cool:

Rockyhud
05-10-2011, 10:11 AM
Barry, I never measured how much the Martin TRG is pulling the cables away from centershot but it definitely is more than a standard/conventional cable slide or my home-made TRG and slide. With the Martin TRG on my bow I took notice that the down cable was pulled out to what appeared to be at least in line with the centerline of the TRG guard rod, if not more. With my TRG both cables appear to be pulled very close to the same amount as they were using a conventional rod and slide.

The Martin TRG also pulls the down cable away significantly more than the up cable, at brace, which is why I speculated my down cable was showing wear that my up cable was not. Being that I was using my original string and cables at the time I wasn't sure if age and use played into that more so or not. With my TRG and slide the cables remain very close to the same plane and orientation as when using a conventional guard rod and slide, hence I expect not to see cable wear like I did with the Martin TRG. Only more shots through mine will provide the answer regarding mine.

SonnyThomas
05-10-2011, 10:12 AM
When at rest there seems a ton of clearance. So it should be adjusted to clear the vanes during the draw cycle?

I don't know. If I adjust my offset guide rod for minimal clearance and it remains minimal throughout drawing and firing. I have consistency.

The TRG & TiltTamer offsets the cables, quite a bit at rest, draws them in near the bow string and then firing has them rapidly return to the greater offset at rest. Consistency, but angular thrust incorporated.

Okay, the TRG & TiltTamer does what to improve the bow? I mean, all I've read is eliminating cam lean and allow the sight pins to be more aligned to the bow string. Again, even Tim Gillingham said; "the shooter still has to make the shot."

Destroyer
05-10-2011, 03:56 PM
Okay, the TRG & TiltTamer does what to improve the bow?

I'd like too know too.


all I've read is eliminating cam lean and allow the sight pins to be more aligned to the bow string.

Cam lean maybe but sight pins aligned better? :confused:

Are the cams the same as the previous year or are they specially designed for the trg?

bfisher
05-10-2011, 04:10 PM
Sonny,

From my perspective you're right. With a conventional rod/slide configuration the cables are pulled a certain amount. With the TRG it would be variable through the draw cycle. Neither is a perfect system, but the bow can still be tuned for good arrow flight.
Same can be said for the CCS.

My main thoughts are that either system pulls the cables creating limb twist. It's not really the cam leaning. I think this limb twist is the root cause of most limb failures these days; especially when considering the stress the limbs are under with the speedier bows and shorter a2a bows as well. Get rid of as much limb twist as possible and limb failure would probably go away for the most part.

Now the hard part is engineering some kind of system, short of X cams, that can do this. After reading your post above it brought back memories of when I shot for XI. My bows had a conventional aluminum rod and I do recall seeing it bend in toward the string as the bow was drawn and the cables loaded up. At the time I thought this was a bad thing. Now I see differently. Then again those bows were from the mid 90's and before these super short monstrocities we have today.

I have the greatest respect for Tim Gillingham. I've met and talked with the man and his shooting achievements speak for themselves, but Martin isn't the only company starting to work on the isue so there has to be more to it than just tuning the bow. And I think it's the limb issues.

Destroyer
05-10-2011, 04:34 PM
My bows had a conventional aluminum rod and I do recall seeing it bend in toward the string as the bow was drawn and the cables loaded up..

Opposite to the latest Bear Archery bows, goes the other way. I don't think it will solve the limb issue at all.

SonnyThomas
05-10-2011, 07:22 PM
bfisher, yes, limbs are taking punishment. One has to look at the overall length of the limb and then see where the piviot point is. On the Martins, the Roto Cup. I mean you may have a 14" limb, but on some bows the limb piviots as much as 4 inches from the limb bolt. As such instead of flex/pressure exerted throughout the limb it is distributed over 10 inches.

If by the pictures in the 2011 catalog the ShadowCat has the shortest piviot point or flex/pressure over a longer length of limb.

Rockyhud
05-12-2011, 01:56 PM
I think we're all talking the same thing here, whether using the term cam lean or limb tip twist. From my perspective it's kind of like the old jingle that goes "the ankle bone is connected to the leg bone, the leg bone is...". You could replace the reference to bones with buss cables and string are connected to the cam, the cam is connected to the limb. During my experimentation with various cable slides and TRG products I became aware of the transition in forces applied to the cams, limbs and riser as the bow goes through the draw cycle. At brace the string has more tension applied to it than the cables do but as the string is drawn fully back the tension on the string gradually becomes less while the tension on the buss cables becomes greater. This was most apparent with a standard straight cable guard rod and slide - probably just as apparent with a roller guard/CCS too. So, by allowing the cables to move toward centershot at full draw focuses most of the front to rear forces on the riser to be coming from nearly the same direction and the forces from the limbs to be closer to parallel with the shooters draw forces. And due to the transition of forces that occurs during the release, with the string taking on more of the tension and the cables less as the bow comes to rest, there is less movement in the riser. According to Joe Marzullo who created the tilt tamer, this also lessens lateral nock travel that could cause left to right shift in point of impact.

Reading on the tilt tamer site about how his product works Joe makes several references to how much less limb twist occurs with his product and how he expects the reduced stresses to reduce the possibility of limb failures as a result of less stress applied to the limbs.

As to how or why the use of the tilt tamer or similar products necessitate moving the sight aperture or pins, the reason is due to the change in how much torque is applied to the riser as the force of drawing the string is vectored with the force applied by the tension in the buss cables and how far from centershot they are at full draw. With the tilt tamer or similar product the angle between the string and cables is considerably less as compared to the angle produced when using a standard guard rod and slide. This translates into a change in how much torque and from which direction the shooters bow holding hand applies to the riser, causing a natural shift in the relative position of bow. With my home-made TRG and slide I immediately noticed a shift in point of impact of about 6-8 inches to the right at 20 yards of where it had been before. This is consistent with what is to be expected with the tilt tamer product as well as what I learned from one of the archery pros at our local Sportsman's Warehouse who installed a tilt tamer. I did find it interesting though that I didn't notice nearly as much shift in point of impact and need to move my pins while I used the Martin TRG, even though it does essentially the same thing with allowing the cables to move towards centershot.

SonnyThomas
05-12-2011, 02:38 PM
Seems you're loaded up on info, Rockyhud. I'll give some to ponder.
My Shadowcat - 60 pounds limbs. Tuned to pin point accuracy from up close to 54 yards (far as my cheapo program goes). Turned down to 50 pounds it has the same pin point accuracy - vertical adjustment only to correct sights. The bow takes 2 high overalls wins in local 3Ds and high overall in a indoor DAIR event.

Change over; Installed 50 pound limbs. No change to rest, bullet holes, pin point accuracy out to the same 54 yards. BUT point of aim changed 4 to 5 inches to the right at 20 yards. Corrected sight frame only. Less draw weight and more to the right is wrong. The bow takes one high overall at another local 3D.

Change over/back; Re-install 60 pound limbs (set to 58 pounds). No change to rest, bullet holes again, pin point accuracy out to 54 yards, but point of aim has to be brought back - back to where it was to start with. The bow shoots great at a 3D and only I choking on a novelty shot keeps it from a solid 404 - 2 points down from the winner.

cyclepath
05-15-2011, 07:30 AM
Looking for an update on the home made TRG. Seems like there has been alot of discussion until a few days ago. Curious as to whether or not you had to twist the cables in order to get the bows ata to spec?

Rockyhud
05-18-2011, 08:24 PM
Here's my latest news and a few photos. To make my TRG look better I spray painted it flat black all over, except for the section the slide run on, and followed up with a few sprays of flat brown for a somewhat camo look. I also replaced the OEM slide with my Saunders Hyper-Glide Slide. Interestingly, there didn't seem to be quite as much difference in smoothness between these slides with my TRG as there was using a straight cable guard rod. I thinking the gradual reduction of tension on the cables as the string is drawn back is the reason. Since this slide worked so well before with the straight rod I'll continue using it with the new TRG.

I also reinstalled my custom upper STS and positioned it so it's only 3/8" further away from the string nock point as compared to the lower STS. As to difference in noise with this setup the shot noise is somewhat less and lower pitch than it was with the TRG/SOS. Not a lot of difference but noticeable. I've been pretty busy at work and home lately so I haven't had much time to go outside and shoot lots of arrows - probably 300 or so - but in that time I haven't seen ANY wear on the cables from my TRG/slide setup and groups are still shooting nice and tight.

I have a couple more things to do before I'm finished with this incarnation - I want to get one more BowJax dampener for the upper STS and I need a new string as the one I bought recently is already fraying above the center serving. I have no idea why it's fraying, especially where it is as there's absolutely nothing contacting the string there and there are no other signs of wear or breakdown anywhere else. I emailed the string maker this afternoon, and sent photos of the string, and he called me shortly after. We discussed the issue and he's sending me a new string soon. He was very good to work with and was interested to get details so he could figure out how this section of string might have been damaged, presumably during the build process. Once I get the new string installed I'll get to shooting it more and come back with an update based on more use.
284028412842

bfisher
05-19-2011, 06:21 AM
I see where the string is fraying. Makes ya wonder, don't it? Being as you had such good CS from your string maker I think you ought to share his business name with us.

That's a pretty nifty looking setup there. Nice workmanship.

Rockyhud
05-19-2011, 01:27 PM
Thanks for the compliment, Barry. I got the inspiration from looking at the Bear bows with dual STS then made it last year (don't recall exactly when) and used it up to the point I decided to try the Martin TRG/SOS. As it's stood up to several months of shooting (no adjustments needed) I guess I hit on a pretty stable design. I posted a thread on AT that has the low-down on the individual parts and such. Here's the URL if anyone's interested (http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1069735).

The string maker I chose was Korbin's Archery - here's his website (http://www.korbinsarchery.com/).

Steve

Rockyhud
05-21-2011, 12:25 PM
After shooting this setup more and shooting with my new Gold Tip Velocity XT 300 spine shafts and 200-gr field points I thought I should provide another update. In my update from May 18, I indicated the "shot noise is somewhat less and lower pitch than it was with the TRG/SOS. Not a lot of difference but noticeable." What I neglected to take into account during that session was that I had earlier reduced my Maxima 350 mass weight from 455-gr to 385-gr by removing 70 grains of insert weight I had been using.

According to OnTarget2 reducing the insert/tip by 70-gr made for a better spine match which is one reason why I changed them. When I shot my new Gold Tip arrows yesterday, which weight 485-gr and are very well spined matched to the 200-gr tips, I was immediately impressed with the lower shot noise I heard as compared to shooting the lower weight Maximas. My wife even noticed the difference.

The point, is shooting my Maxima arrows when they weighed 452 and using the Martin TRG made more shot noise (loudness and duration) than my setup now with the dual string stoppers and home-made TRG shooting my 485-gr Gold Tip arrows. I was so impressed by the difference I thought I should pass this on in. I'm quite certain this configuration will be in place for quite a long time. The only difference will be changing to rubber cat whiskers silencers in place of the musk ox wool silencers after I get the replacement string from Korbin's Archery. These don't seem to handle the fast string speeds of compound bows - something that was an unknown when I ordered them - as they are gradually loosing wool from the ends and not staying in place as I hoped. I also started reading some reviewers comments saying they work well (with trad bows) but they also catch a lot of burrs in the field when used in hunting environments. Since mine is primarily a hunting bow, switching to rubber cat whiskers makes sense.

cyclepath
06-03-2011, 11:20 AM
Rocky, lets here an update on your home made TRG. Have you run more tests on it? Have you run it through a crono to see if your getting more speed? Is it holding up well? Hows the cables look? Any more things you can think of lets hear it.

Rockyhud
06-03-2011, 03:09 PM
Sorry I haven't been more active and updated this lately. We recently caught a good sale on ceiling fans (20% off) and bought 4 to augment the 2 already in our home. This project has become more involved than originally expected. Don't they almost always turn out that way? http://martinarchery.com/mtechforum/images/smilies/redface.png

Anyway, long story short, I'm still impressed with the performance of my home-made TRG and slide system. Other than the unexplained string fraying above the center serving where nothing makes contact, there has been no observable wear anywhere on the cables or string. As I haven't taken my bow back to the pro shop to see what it's speed is running I can't report on any changes there. Add to that the fact that my arrow weight has changed since shooting my new Gold Tips weighing 485-gr. According to OnTarget2, which has previously been very close in estimating speed with chronographed speeds and it's weight estimate is dead on with the measured weight of the finished arrows, my setup (DW-66 lbs and DL-29") should be spitting these Gold Tips out at 268 fps. Once I get my replacement string (still awaiting arrival) and get it on and a few shots on it to set the stretch, I'll make some time to shoot through a chrony. As soon as these things happen or anything else that happens before the new string gets installed I'll post up what I find. But as it stands now, I don't foresee a reason for changing back to a straight guide rod and slide and the dual string stopper setup is working great.

cyclepath
06-04-2011, 01:54 PM
Sorry to hear about your home projects not going as planned. Just curious if you have noticed a diffence with a smoother draw with your home made trg? Just wondering if it's worth changing mine over as well. Good luck with your project.

Rockyhud
06-06-2011, 10:05 AM
With the Martin TRG and my own, I have noticed an improvement in the draw cycle, most notably near the end as the draw force curve drops into the valley before coming up against the hard stop/wall. Both TRG types helped make the "hump" into the valley less pronounced. That's the biggest difference I've experienced. It's been long enough time since I had a straight guide rod and slide installed that I don't recall if there was much else different in the first part of the draw cycle between the two systems. Since both systems pull the cables very close to the same amount to the side at the first part of the draw cycle, logic would seem to indicate the "feel" would be very similar during this phase with both straight rod and TRG.

pizzadave
08-19-2011, 06:49 AM
Why must you tempt me with this.idea! ..I think I want to make a rod system like this for my cheetah... the bow is sooooo short which makes the cable / cam lean a bit if an issue...... rather than dumping $80 on a tilt tamer, I may just brave it.... and go with this route..... i an an electrician, and it really sems like a lot if the same geomerty i use during conduit bending.... just wish we had a 3/8 hydraulic bender. That would make it too sweet..... we shall see. I've had a lot of issues with my bow, and don't really.want.to cause more, which.is what scares me with this, but only time will tell....

MLN1963
08-19-2011, 10:20 AM
Tempt, didn't you ask for this info? :cool:

pizzadave
08-19-2011, 02:25 PM
I have been thinking something of this style is a great solution... didn't know anyone tried it til I dug up this old thread. My dad used to own an archery shop that carried lots of Martin parts, including 3/8'' aluminum and carbon rods. I am gonna play with some of the long aluminum rods, and see if I can come up with something.