PDA

View Full Version : Cable guard .vs. Trg ?



Hutch~n~Son Archery
05-11-2011, 11:15 AM
I guess I like to see a few years on a product before I buy one. So needless to say, when the Trg came out, I wanted to see how it performed first. When all said and done I think I will stick to the cable guard and slide. Or at at least till they perfect the Trg.

Hutch:cool:

gravedigger
05-11-2011, 11:23 AM
yep yep.if i ever get a newer bow it will not have the trg.just from what i have seen the trg is still in the babby steps of it new life.maybe some time down the road if it is ever made to work right then i might try one on for S*&^% and giggles

Simple Life
05-11-2011, 02:41 PM
My next bow,will not have a TRG.

Hutch~n~Son Archery
05-11-2011, 02:46 PM
My next bow,will not have a TRG.
Order a cable guard and glide and there won't be a next bow:rolleyes: or see if they will trade it for one at Martin.


Hutch:cool:

archerx7
05-11-2011, 02:47 PM
You guys do realize that the TRG can be replaced with a standard rod and slide don't you ? The TRG rod is the same size ( 3/8" ) as a standard rod.

Nemesis03
05-11-2011, 02:50 PM
You guys do realize that the TRG can be replaced with a standard rod and slide don't you ? The TRG rod is the same size ( 3/8" ) as a standard rod.

Isn't it great to have the option? Has anybody seen an actual cable failure due to the TRG?

Simple Life
05-11-2011, 02:56 PM
Order a cable guard and glide and there won't be a next bow:rolleyes: or see if they will trade it for one at Martin.


Hutch:cool:

Come on Hutch,always can use ANOTHER bow;)

gibson 787
05-11-2011, 03:00 PM
I guess I like to see a few years on a product before I buy one. So needless to say, when the Trg came out, I wanted to see how it performed first. When all said and done I think I will stick to the cable guard and slide. Or at at least till they perfect the Trg.

I know where you're coming from Hutch. What's your take on the CCS?

Hutch~n~Son Archery
05-11-2011, 03:01 PM
Come on Hutch,always can use ANOTHER bow;)
Let me ask your wife that question.


HUTCH

Hutch~n~Son Archery
05-11-2011, 03:03 PM
I know where you're coming from Hutch. What's your take on the CCS?
It works but is not perfected. Do a search and and see the derailment problems and the cable wear problems.


Hutch:cool:

Simple Life
05-11-2011, 03:06 PM
Let me ask your wife that question.


HUTCH

LOL,she don't need to know.I will leave the TRG,no abnormal wear yet,but I am going to order a STS and remove the SOS.

gibson 787
05-11-2011, 03:14 PM
It works but is not perfected. Do a search and and see the derailment problems and the cable wear problems.

I've had experience with all three systems and have to admit the slide has posed no problems at all. The CCS has caused slight cable wear when not served and the TRG similar wear until I put more twists in string/cable and applied plenty of wax, but not too much.

I wonder what Martin's thoughts are when they read all these type of posts. Very clever of a bow company to own a couple of archery web sites I reckon.

Simple Life
05-11-2011, 03:31 PM
Thats the thing,we are used to a low maintence slide and now we are having to use certain waxs,adjusting it and watching for wear around the TRG, I respect what Martin is trying to do,but sometimes it is hard to better something that already works good.

gibson 787
05-11-2011, 03:54 PM
I respect what Martin is trying to do,but sometimes it is hard to better something that already works good.

Agree 100%, but in this difficult business, you gotta keep coming up with something different each year, or you're outa business. It certainly ain't easy and would keep you on your toes for sure!

Speedykills
05-11-2011, 03:55 PM
It works but is not perfected. Do a search and and see the derailment problems and the cable wear problems.


Hutch:cool:

My setup is working just fine as i suspect most are,personely i think Martin should stick with the CCS,it just works,look at mathews,heck even bowtech went this route as im sure other bow companies have too.
In my opionon thats the route i would go if i was martin.Also i think would side plates should be the norm and the thermo v grip should be a option,ok im done.

Hutch~n~Son Archery
05-11-2011, 04:24 PM
My setup is working just fine as i suspect most are,personely i think Martin should stick with the CCS,it just works,look at mathews,heck even bowtech went this route as im sure other bow companies have too.
In my opionon thats the route i would go if i was martin.Also i think would side plates should be the norm and the thermo v grip should be a option,ok im done. I am glad yours is working well. But if you look through the forum and other forums, they have had countless problems. I like the ccs better then the trg. But IMO it still holds the cable too stationary and causes unnecessary stress and wear to the cable.


Hutch:cool:

Speedykills
05-11-2011, 04:33 PM
I am glad yours is working well. But if you look through the forum and other forums, they have had countless problems. I like the ccs better then the trg. But IMO it still holds the cable too stationary and causes unnecessary stress and wear to the cable.


Hutch:cool:

well if there were ten or twenty people with problems not really a big deal considering the amount of bows Martin sell's nothing a little halo serving would'nt cure or better strings and cables.
But the more i look at the trg setup the more i like the CCS.

As i have said before AT isnt the whole archery community................:p

Hutch~n~Son Archery
05-11-2011, 04:40 PM
well if there were ten or twenty people with problems not really a big deal considering the amount of bows Martin sell's nothing a little halo serving would'nt cure or better strings and cables.
But the more i look at the trg setup the more i like the CCS.

As i have said before AT isnt the whole archery community................:p
I wholly agree ccs over trg. As for other forums then AT, I have seen lots of posts on how do I fix my ccs. But never the less its working for you stick with it. My bow cam with the rod and not the ccs. If it had came with a ccs I would use it.

Hutch:cool:

MLN1963
05-11-2011, 05:46 PM
You guys do realize that the TRG can be replaced with a standard rod and slide don't you ? The TRG rod is the same size ( 3/8" ) as a standard rod.

Jim

Do you think that the A2A will change since the TRG really moves the cables to the right at rest?

archerx7
05-11-2011, 05:55 PM
Jim

Do you think that the A2A will change since the TRG really moves the cables to the right at rest?

You'll most likley see a small change, the same as converting from a ccs to a rod/slide, you would just have to add some twist to the cables to bring it back to where it was.

gravedigger
05-11-2011, 06:04 PM
I know where you're coming from Hutch. What's your take on the CCS?


My setup is working just fine as i suspect most are,personely i think Martin should stick with the CCS,it just works,look at mathews,heck even bowtech went this route as im sure other bow companies have too.
In my opionon thats the route i would go if i was martin.Also i think would side plates should be the norm and the thermo v grip should be a option,ok im done.

i dig the ccs.i have had 0 issues with it.but thats just me.i geep it clean with small amout of wax.i would like to get 2 more bengals with the ccs.i will for sur stick with the ccs.

wscywabbit
05-11-2011, 06:18 PM
question is, will the ccs, if ordered from Martin, fit on the 2011 bows that have the trg?

Destroyer
05-11-2011, 06:43 PM
but in this difficult business, you gotta keep coming up with something different each year, or you're outa business.

Perhaps. Its a bit like the software industry, you always have ppl crying out for 'innovation' but the paying average user doesn't give a crap. They just want 'familiar' reliable software that is easy to use and that works. But there is always those who scream for change for the sake of change, they are usually the loudest.

Speed sells, reliability sells, trendy stuff? I really think us archers are more conservative generally. There is always a trendy segment but I don't think most of us are. Problem with 'trends' is that they are always changing.

Give me a reliable, well designed bow that doesn't go out of date too soon and I'll be happy. Industry standard parts for extra choice and I'm over the moon. :D

SonnyThomas
05-11-2011, 06:54 PM
??? Are we the only ones seeing problems with the TRG? I mean, hey, surely some other web site must have something about it.

gravedigger
05-11-2011, 07:03 PM
question is, will the ccs, if ordered from Martin, fit on the 2011 bows that have the trg?

the ccs will not work on the 2011 bows.2011 does not have that slot for the ccs to fit in,but if a guy can use a machine to mill down the slot then yep good to go,well i think.i dont know how this would affect the riser

gibson 787
05-11-2011, 07:24 PM
??? Are we the only ones seeing problems with the TRG? I mean, hey, surely some other web site must have something about it.

I really don't have a problem with any of them, the problems IMO are minor and can easily be fixed with a little effort, a file and a piece of emery cloth. I often hear about problems that are blamed on a particular part, but the problem ends up eminating from somewhere else on the bow, or from the manner in which it is set up. Overall, Martin bows represent excellent value for money, sure there are a few minor aesthetic type issues with them sometimes that require a bit of work, but I'd sooner have that than fork out an arm and a leg for something that may shine a little more, but doesn't perform any better and likely as not, underperforms a Martin.

SonnyThomas
05-12-2011, 06:42 AM
I really don't have a problem with any of them, the problems IMO are minor and can easily be fixed with a little effort, a file and a piece of emery cloth. I often hear about problems that are blamed on a particular part, but the problem ends up eminating from somewhere else on the bow, or from the manner in which it is set up. Overall, Martin bows represent excellent value for money, sure there are a few minor aesthetic type issues with them sometimes that require a bit of work, but I'd sooner have that than fork out an arm and a leg for something that may shine a little more, but doesn't perform any better and likely as not, underperforms a Martin.

Personally, after reading this I don't think you should have said anything.

I buy something I expect it to work, not work on it to make it work.

And the TRG problem is coming from where?

If people are doing something wrong then the manual must be wrong? Whoops. There is no new 2011 manual.

Under performs a Martin? And you have been where?

Martin has some "home work" to do. I'll give them the opportunity to do it. But in the mean time, the cussing and discussing of the TRG will probably continue.

gibson 787
05-12-2011, 12:10 PM
Personally, after reading this I don't think you should have said anything.

I buy something I expect it to work, not work on it to make it work.

And the TRG problem is coming from where?

If people are doing something wrong then the manual must be wrong? Whoops. There is no new 2011 manual.

Under performs a Martin? And you have been where?

Martin has some "home work" to do. I'll give them the opportunity to do it. But in the mean time, the cussing and discussing of the TRG will probably continue

Sonny, I'll attempt to explain it in simpler terms. Martin offers bows that perform as good as any of it's competitors, BUT AT MUCH LOWER PRICES. How do they do this? Well, obviously there must be a trade off somewhere. The trade off is in all those things that we are constantly griping about. The fact is, if more labour and money was spent preventing those problems, THE PRICE OF THE BOWS WOULD BE CONSIDERABLY HIGHER. So how does Martin smooth out the problem? THEY PROVIDE CUSTOMER SERVICE OF A HIGHER STANDARD THAN THEIR COMPETITORS TO TAKE CARE OF ALL THOSE NIGGLY PROBLEMS. Hence, Martin's reputation for excellence in that area.

Hopefully when you read this Sonny, you won't tell me that I don't have the right to voice an opinion.

Have a good day mate.

gravedigger
05-12-2011, 12:44 PM
Sonny, I'll attempt to explain it in simpler terms. Martin offers bows that perform as good as any of it's competitors, BUT AT MUCH LOWER PRICES. How do they do this? Well, obviously there must be a trade off somewhere. The trade off is in all those things that we are constantly griping about. The fact is, if more labour and money was spent preventing those problems, THE PRICE OF THE BOWS WOULD BE CONSIDERABLY HIGHER. So how does Martin smooth out the problem? THEY PROVIDE CUSTOMER SERVICE OF A HIGHER STANDARD THAN THEIR COMPETITORS TO TAKE CARE OF ALL THOSE NIGGLY PROBLEMS. Hence, Martin's reputation for excellence in that area.

Hopefully when you read this Sonny, you won't tell me that I don't have the right to voice an opinion.

Have a good day mate.
I AM 100% with sonny
no one should have to fix an issue with anything thats under warenty.i should not have to bust out my tools and fix what should have been seen and fixed in the design and product befor it was put on the market.thats why compines make prototypes befor they send what ever out to market.these issuse that are coming up should have been noticed and fixed befor they go on the market.then they would not have to spend so much time on customer service.cheep or not i want my product to preform as well as it should,not as well as i can fix it to make it work.martin does need to take a step back and man up to what has been going on.im not saying im going to sell my bow and go else ware but i am not above driving to martins office in washington and droping off a bow to have it made right.

gibson 787
05-12-2011, 01:01 PM
no one should have to fix an issue with anything thats under warenty.i should not have to bust out my tools and fix what should have been seen and fixed in the design and product befor it was put on the market.thats why compines make prototypes befor they send what ever out to market.these issuse that are coming up should have been noticed and fixed befor they go on the market.then they would not have to spend so much time on customer service.cheep or not i want my product to preform as well as it should,not as well as i can fix it to make it work.martin does need to take a step back and man up to what has been going on.im not saying im going to sell my bow and go else ware but i am not above driving to martins office in washington and droping off a bow to have it made right.

Gravedigger, I really can't put it in any simpler terms, except to say - YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR, AND THE PRICE YOU PAY FOR MARTIN BOWS, IMHO, IS A GOOD DEAL IF YOU THINK IT'S NOT A GOOD DEAL, OUTLAY LOTS MORE MONEY FOR A DIFFERENT BRAND.

MLN1963
05-12-2011, 02:07 PM
Gibby

I just can't believe that you think ANY bow is a good deal, Martin or not? None of them are good deals, we have just been conditioned to think that a $600 bow is cheap. Jump to the Rytera line and they are just as expensive as the rest. It's what the market will bear and we are all responsible for that.

Look at all the machining and metal work that goes into a rifle or pistol. Many rifles and pistols cost less than a bow, compound or recurve!!! You can't tell me you think there is less work involved in designing, developing, marketing and INSURING a firearm? Bows are a rip-off if you sit down and think about it. That is why I try not to think about it!

Since my bow is currently in Martin's care I will refrain from any further comment.

gibson 787
05-12-2011, 02:34 PM
Gibby

I just can't believe that you think ANY bow is a good deal, Martin or not? None of them are good deals, we have just been conditioned to think that a $600 bow is cheap. Jump to the Rytera line and they are just as expensive as the rest. It's what the market will bear and we are all responsible for that.

Look at all the machining and metal work that goes into a rifle or pistol. Many rifles and pistols cost less than a bow, compound or recurve!!! You can't tell me you think there is less work involved in designing, developing, marketing and INSURING a firearm? Bows are a rip-off if you sit down and think about it. That is why I try not to think about it!

Since my bow is currently in Martin's care I will refrain from any further comment


Wow, I feel like a voice in the wilderness here. I think you'll find the reason bows are expensive compared to firearms, is market demand. There would be mega millions more firearms sold in comparison to bows, meaning costs are considerably reduced due to high volume turnover as well as manufacturer competition.
So, comparing bows to firearms is the old 'comparing apples to onions' scenario. At the end of the day, the market (you and I, the consumer) determines the price of enything.

Mate, I can understand peoples frustration when things go wrong, as I've had my fair share believe me! All I'm trying to say, is that for me, the hassles are a fair trade off for the price I pay for a Martin bow. For the chance of less hassles, I could buy another brand, but I've done the sums and I prefer to stick with Martin. Others can do as they please!

Speedykills
05-12-2011, 02:47 PM
There you go with them onions again..................:p

Simple Life
05-12-2011, 02:51 PM
There you go with them onions again..................:p

Oh no,not the onions again http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-fc/paperbag.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

gibson 787
05-12-2011, 02:57 PM
There you go with them onions again..................

LOL! It's Roger Over and Out on this one for me fellas. Just can't seem to get this round peg into that square hole, b.gg.r it! I'll get it in one day though!! :confused:

gravedigger
05-12-2011, 03:35 PM
.

Gravedigger, I really can't put it in any simpler terms, except to say - YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR, AND THE PRICE YOU PAY FOR MARTIN BOWS, IMHO, IS A GOOD DEAL IF YOU THINK IT'S NOT A GOOD DEAL, OUTLAY LOTS MORE MONEY FOR A DIFFERENT BRAND.

im perty sure i said im not going with a difernt bow.and i dont recall saying martin is not a good deal.pick and choose what you want out of my post but all and all i should get what i pay for.a bow with out issue,unless i were to tune it wrong then i would fix my mistake.i will not fix the mistake of a lazy operator not doing his/her job.

SonnyThomas
05-12-2011, 03:37 PM
Sonny, I'll attempt to explain it in simpler terms. Martin offers bows that perform as good as any of it's competitors, BUT AT MUCH LOWER PRICES. How do they do this? Well, obviously there must be a trade off somewhere. The trade off is in all those things that we are constantly griping about. The fact is, if more labour and money was spent preventing those problems, THE PRICE OF THE BOWS WOULD BE CONSIDERABLY HIGHER. So how does Martin smooth out the problem? THEY PROVIDE CUSTOMER SERVICE OF A HIGHER STANDARD THAN THEIR COMPETITORS TO TAKE CARE OF ALL THOSE NIGGLY PROBLEMS. Hence, Martin's reputation for excellence in that area.

Hopefully when you read this Sonny, you won't tell me that I don't have the right to voice an opinion.

Have a good day mate.

Well, working/managing a archery shop and owning other than Martin bows I can tell their Customer Service in no higher than the next. Not once have I had to pay or charge a customer for any parts or repairs from several companies, not warranty or problems of workmanship. Seems all companies at one time or another have had their problems and have went to lengths to correct them.

I didn't deny your right to voice your opinion. I said; "Personally, after reading this I don't think you should have said anything." After such I went on to point out that within your reply.

So even now you point to Martin as having quality issues. You even point out; "we are constantly griping about". That extra minute or two to apply or inspect paint jobs cost what? A few bucks or the loss of several sales of bows?

And then, "Passing the Buck" is another of my pet peeves and you were/are doing just that.

So we are getting off the main track and I'm sure bfisher will note such. However, in closing, I did note; "Martin has some "home work" to do. I'll give them the opportunity to do it."

kylecurtis04
05-12-2011, 06:51 PM
this is turning into a soap opera. lol.

MLN1963
05-12-2011, 08:13 PM
I don't think anyone buys your theory Gibby. I guarantee you that if I thought buying a Martin was buying a substandard, need to fix it as soon as I bought it, you are only getting a $600 bow, I would never have bought a Martin. It's just a shame that that is how it turns out for too many.

gibson 787
05-12-2011, 08:42 PM
I don't think anyone buys your theory Gibby. I guarantee you that if I thought buying a Martin was buying a substandard, need to fix it as soon as I bought it, you are only getting a $600 bow, I would never have bought a Martin. It's just a shame that that is how it turns out for too many.
Firecat 400, TruGlo Carbon XS 4 pin sight, QAD Ultra Rest Pro LD, Fletcher Tru-Peep, BowJax Silencers, X-Factor Stabilizer, Wildman Fast-4 Quiver, Gold Tip Velocity Hunter Arrows, NAP Thunderhead Broadheads


AAARRHH.....I surrenderrrrrrrr. LOL x 1,000,000. By the way, what's this got to do with Hutch's topic???? You're right Kyle, it has turned into a soapie.

NOW THAT'S IT FOLKS, NO MORE. :D

HawgEnvy
05-13-2011, 05:32 AM
I like turtles

MLN1963
05-13-2011, 05:51 AM
Okay, this is related to TRG and cable guards. I got a phone call from Ryan Martin last night to talk about my bow. One of the things that come up was the TRG. He said that they redesigned the TRG and redesigned the Hammer Head cables. They are getting some 6000 shots on a bow now with no wear.

He also said that depending on the part of the country the bows go to some get cables slides instead of a TRG. That seems weird to me? I would think you either have faith in a new design and go all in or maybe offer it as an option to test the waters. As a bonus he said he is going to throw in a cable slide and rod when they return my bow.

cjchasman
05-13-2011, 06:07 AM
Ryan Martin as in Martin Archery? If so that's cool he took interest. Did he happen to mention what the changes were in the redesign effort?

MLN1963
05-13-2011, 06:22 AM
Yes, that Ryan Martin. I sent my bow to him at the suggestion of customer service.

I was at a FFA banquet for my son when he called so I didn't have a lot of time and it was hard to hear him even though I moved into the hallway. I think there may have been a material change and they bead blasted the mold to give a little roughness to the TRG. I asked about that and he said that it worked better that way. All I can think of is maybe there is less surface tension or drag that way? What they did to the HH cables he didn't say. He did say that they are only using about 4-4.5 inches of serving on the string now instead of the nearly 13 inches I had on my string.

Simple Life
05-13-2011, 06:46 AM
Good for you MLN,hope it works good when you get it back.Wonder what their plans are now,sounds like they found a few problems.

kylecurtis04
05-13-2011, 12:42 PM
Did he mention what type of fabrications they made to the TRG or anything of that nature? Did you two talk about what they are going to do with all the customers that bought bows with TRG's on them? Are they going to replace these bows with the new and improved TRG?

MLN1963
05-13-2011, 12:53 PM
As I mentioned I was a a FFA banquet for my son so we didn't talk for a long time.

I think he mentioned a self lubricating material and bead blasting the mold to give a little roughness. My bow started with 10XXXXX so it was probably an early bow. I hope that I get a good TRG that lasts 6000 shots like he mentioned. He said he was going to tell the guys to throw in a different rod and cable slide too. I hope they don't forget.

wick
05-13-2011, 01:42 PM
I just got off the phone with my local dealer, Martin sent me a new string because the shooting string was striking it and wearing out the serving. This was before i installed the SOS. Any how, Martin sent along with the string a new rod and cable slide to replace the TRG if that's what i chose to do. And a brand new TRG too. I got to check it out tomorrow and see if it is a different material. He also said that he has a paper instructing how to check and see if the TRG is set correctly. Interesting? I wonder whats up with sending the rod and slide conversion.

justin
05-13-2011, 01:47 PM
i find this completely awesome!!!

Simple Life
05-13-2011, 02:19 PM
Wonder where that leaves the many who have the old style TRG and HH strings?Was there a point in production that things where changed.Man there is so many questions now than before.

wscywabbit
05-13-2011, 06:52 PM
I guess my question would be when did they implement the new changes? I haven't had the chance to shoot my new Onza very much, and haven't had it more than a couple weeks. I guess I'm just hoping that mine's new enough to not have to worry about it (selfish I know :p)

SonnyThomas
05-14-2011, 05:24 AM
The TRG was introduced just this year, for 2011 models.

Money Man
05-14-2011, 05:35 AM
Yes, that Ryan Martin. I sent my bow to him at the suggestion of customer service.

I was at a FFA banquet for my son when he called so I didn't have a lot of time and it was hard to hear him even though I moved into the hallway. I think there may have been a material change and they bead blasted the mold to give a little roughness to the TRG. I asked about that and he said that it worked better that way. All I can think of is maybe there is less surface tension or drag that way? What they did to the HH cables he didn't say. He did say that they are only using about 4-4.5 inches of serving on the string now instead of the nearly 13 inches I had on my string.

This sounds like Martin has addressed many of the areas of concern that have been voiced on this forum. Early in the year there were threads about the serving being too long, and who knew to fix the wear on the cables, that they would need to roughen up the TRG? For them to test the new TRG to get 6000 shots on it, would take some time to accomplish. Being that it is May, we are only 5 months into the new year, so I think our concerns have not been falling on deaf ears, but it just took some time to work on the problems. Let's hope that these changes are what was needed, and that owners of affected bows are taken care of.

MLN1963
05-14-2011, 06:30 AM
When I get my bow back I'll see if I can tell any difference in the TRGs. It may be hard since I won't have both.

As for the roughness it is surely minute as bead blasting won't leave something really rough, maybe a satin like finish?

Bowhunter_IL_BT
05-14-2011, 03:07 PM
Yes stick with the regular cable slide. Seems there are issues both CCS and TRG. How much torque does the regular slide produce anyway? If you shoot well with the regular cable slide id stay with it.

wick
05-14-2011, 06:12 PM
Just got my replacement strings, TRG and and rod today. The rod is about 1/4 inch shorter but the TRG itself looks like the exact same material as the old one. I bought my bow in march but don't have a clue about the date of manufacture so I may already have the newer bead blasted TRG. They did send a new cable rod and slide but the dang thing shoots so well I chose to keep the set up the same and try the replacement parts since I wasn't getting any wear from the cable and string on the TRG itself. Dialing it back in tonight.