I think they should go back to anodizing their risers to take care of a lot of the finish problems (at least with the non camo bows) I have an old Scepter 2 that is anodized and the finish on it looks in way better condition than my newer Scepter 4's.
One of the main things I always liked about Martin, and thought made them a smarter option than a lot of other brands was the interchangeability of all their limb and cam options with the older bows, You had 17", 16" & 14" limbs to choose from, and a whole array of cams as well, and they could all be mixed and matched to come up with a bow that suited the archer down to the ground......not so much now with the newer bows.
I would also like them to bring back the Nitrous cams, or some other (even faster) X shoot through cam system, as long as they feel similar to the Nitrous cams.
I would still like to add a Shadowcat and a Scepter V to my stable though ! :cool:
And, if the issue has been fixed, I would definitely order a pair of 2013 modules for my 2011 Onza 3 (even though I have made the edges round myself using a file).
Iam just glad I got my hands on a 2012 Cougar FC before they all got gone. I think 2013 line up looks sad. The speed numbers are stuck in the mid to low numbers of the industry. 80% of PSE pro line shoots faster than all the top end Martins in 2013. When I found out the Silencer wasn't comeing back in 2013 I went on the search for one and got lucky and found a sweet deal on a Cougar.
To be honest......there is nothing in the 2013 line that I would drop my money on. Too many better options out there with other companies.
WHY IS MARTIN SLOWING DOWN??????
Not all other bow companies make bows that do the speed that they advertise either. I am not putting any company down either. PSE bows may do the advertised speed, but the bottom line is speed is only part of the package.
I somewhat agree that the speeds are somewhat slow, but you have to look at how the others are reaching the speeds. Most of the highest speed bows have 5.5 to 6 inch brace heights increasing the power stroke. This is immediately throwing another 10 to 15 fps on top of their 7 inch brace height counterparts. Just about every bow in the lineup has a 7 inch brace. It begs to question if this is a philosophy of "shootability". I imagine that Martin just doesn't feel that making the bows less forgiving for 10-15 fps is worth it. I personally would like to have a choice between a 6 inch brace or a 7 inch brace -- for instance the Insanity CPXL vs the CPX or the Monster 6, 7, or 8. It would be cool to have a Aliex X or an Alien Z with a 6 inch brace and tweak it to IBO 345 just to have one speed freak bow and what the heck call it the Alien Encounter or Abduction.
I am not sure how practical this is, but it would be nice that if you buy a Rytera Pro Series bow that the bow is setup to all specs and meets the advertised speeds from the factory. There is one "dealer" in my city that doesn't even stock the bows, but says that he can order one for me. How hard do you think that he will work on that bow to shoot as it was intended?
New 2014 bow. Rytera Alien Light Speed. Cross the Warthog and the Alien X. Shave the weight with split limbs and cut some riser weight to reach bare weight of 3.2 lb and IBO 355. I love to dream. People would be saying didn't Mathews used to make a light bow -- I think it was called Heli or something like that.
If you look back 10 years or better, Martin had bows shooting 310-plus. If I remember right 2002 Rage with fury cams was hitting I.B.O of 313 fps and the Cougar was hitting I.B.O of 315fps. Now that was in 2002, so they can do what most of the companies are doing. But speed isn't everything. I know some believe that it is. But accuracy and quietness is one of the main things I buy a bow for. I also don't believe that every company puts out totally accurate I.B.O speeds. They want you to think the bow is that fast. My Motto is I will believe it when I see it. Frankly I haven't seen to many doing what they say they can do.
The speed/brace height/shootability issue is paramount to me. I understand that there are companies out there with faster bows in their lineup, but at what cost?
A smaller brace height not only makes a bow more unforgiving, but what about arm clearance? If I'm using a bow to hunt, and am wearing a jacket or something I don't want the string to slap my jacket and make the shot go wide and a bunch of noise. I actually saw an episode of Bow Madness where the guy slapped his jacket with the string, he was pretty upset!
Archery shops still sell arm guards. :)
Wow! This thread got some momentum. Like it or not; I have an Alpine Verdict that is a 6.25 Brace at 31.5ATA and the catalog put it at 328. I will tell ya that it flat get out their fast with a 430g arrow. Much faster than my Fire Cat 400, the Verdict draw is smooth as a baby's but with the Velocitec Cam "30 and split Limbs. The Fire Cat was @ 278-283 with 430g arrow and 8125G strings. Currently have trophy on here and it slowed her down some. Had the FC tuned just right and have a Sanders Hyper Slide on her. I haven't got the verdict on a Chrono yet but would guess some were around 285-90fps (+/-) with 430g arrow 8190 strings. I think you need speed but not at the price for comfort also. A good balance between them is best. I've shot hell of a lot of bows over the years and most are different. The one brand of bows the last few years that have been similar is Martin (FC 400/Cougar/Silencer). "Good bows for a balance of speed and comfort". I'm not sold on the 2013 line-up. Just picked up a F1 Fire Ball 34 ATA listed @ 337 w/a 6.12 brace, can't wait to see what this one will do.
Here's another idea -- Seeker 365 with redesigned hybrix cams that can shoot IBO 365 ft/s. Then offer the option of smooth mods which is basically the current cams. Give PSE a run for their money.
There is an article on AT by Terry Martin that kinda gives their take on this.
If I find it again I'll post a link.
How Fast Do You Need Your Bow To Be?
By: Terry Martin
Over the last 40 years, I have personally tested thousands of bows. In addition, I have reviewed hundreds of test results and reviews written for articles.
In the early years of the compound bow, truth is many good recurves were faster than most compounds. In the early years compound bowsí let-off made it easier to hold at full draw. However, the durability and performance was not what it is today. It would be similar to comparing the Model T to cars of today.
An archer needs to consider several things when choosing between a traditional or compound bow. Many archers choose to shoot traditional bows for their simplicity and light weight, not to mention the tradition and enjoyment of shooting these classic designs.
Speed is great, however there is a price to pay. In early compound design, the energy was created by round eccentric wheels. These bows peaked at maximum weight for about 2 inches during the draw force curve of the bow.
Current cam have been designed so the bow draws with peaking almost as soon as you start drawing back and not letting off until almost full draw. This creates much more stored energy and a much faster bow.
Basically, the faster the bow the harder it will be to pull back. At full draw, however, the archer is only holding about 30 percent of the peak weight.
For comparisons, here are some examples of average speeds for different types:
Longbow 160 to 180 fps (feet per second)
Recurve 170 to 210 fps
Early compounds 180 to 240 fps
Current compounds with high performance cams 280 to 350 fps
Of course, itís important to consider other changes made over the years like riser materials, better string material, improved limb technology, cam design, composite arrows and overall bow design.
Over the years, new bow designs, release aids and arrows have caused controversy. I remember when I was 10 years old, many felt the bow sight was too much an improvement. The reality is you could tape a tooth pick on your sight window and have an advantage.
Release aids were an even bigger controversy. Some states banned release aids in the 1970s, but sales were as strong as states without a ban so the banning laws were quickly changed. The reality is the Turks used release aids hundreds of years ago.
You can imagine what a controversy the compound bow was. Many archers felt they would destroy archery. Some dealers refused to carry compounds. Since the traditional market died for several years after the introduction of compounds, shops that refused to sell anything except recurves and long bows did not survive.
Many manufacturers stopped production of traditional bows entirely. In the last 20 years, interest has returned and the traditional market has been increasing. In todayís market, archers can choose whichever feels best to them and many shoot both.
Both have advantages compound have more speed, which helps when judging yardage, they shoot flatter and allow the archer the advantage of misjudging the yardage by a greater distance and still hit the target; long bows and recurves have the advantage of simplicity and light weight.
You can have lot of fun no matter whatever you choose. Archery is a great family sport. Keep in mind, even if a bow is fast, if itís not tuned or the archer isnít able to handle the bow, you just miss at a faster