Going on my THIRD set of limbs since June

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Originally Posted by bfisher

I might be misinterpretting what you mean, but the Onza doesn't have a yoke system, but even with yoke cables the limb would still get twisted as the bow is drawn. With any kind of fixed cable rod/slide there's no getting around it. That's one of the reasons Martin came out with the TRG a couple years ago and Bowtech now has their Flex Guard. The idea is for the cables to move closer to the bow's center as the bow is drawn which reduces the side load on the limbs.

Martin used to have an X system on the Fury, Nitrous, and Furious cam which alleviated any and all cam lean (limb twist) that used 4 cables and the string. The arrow was shot between the cables. It was never all that popular with the hunting crowd because most couldn't adjust their pea brains to using it. Most comments I always read made statements about loading a broadhead arrow between the cables and possibly cutting one or more. If some had tried it they'd have learned that you load the arrow from the front and back the nock between the cables and onto the string (a couple inches). It was arguably the best and most efficient cam system (especially the Nitrous) ever engineered. Completely eliminated the cable rod/slide.

Anyway, I rant too much. Hope they figure out your bow. I'm sure you'll keep us posted.

Barry

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Yes I know the onza doesn't have a yoke system I was talking in general, but those are some interesting facts sounds like Martin could benefit greatly from experimenting with a flex type cable containment system. Also I understand why the quad limbs should help reduce the amount of limb problems.

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Originally Posted by Lab Rat

What was the best shoot thru setup that Martin had? Were the Nitrous cams fast? I have no idea why they wouldn't offer this type of cam system on their longer target bows. I put a tilt tamer on my Alien Z to remove the side torque and it works pretty well, but the shoot thru would completely eliminate it. The cable guard was terrible in a number of respects since it was stationary and was positioned way to close to the riser for someone with a 30.5" draw. If you watch the flexguard video on Bowtech's website they use a laser during the draw cycle to show that the flexguard eliminated around 1/2 of the nock travel. I don't think that they went far enough. Why not eliminate all of the nock travel and torque? Is there any way to convert the hybrix cams to shoot through?

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I only wish there was a way to make the Hybrix a shoot through. As for the Nitrous being fast? Let me put it this way. My first bow with Martin was a 2004 SlayR, IBO rated at 325 fps with C base cams. The Nitrous came in three different sizes to cover the draw length range. Mine had B cams to accommodate my 27" draw. Set up at 27.5" and shooting a 275 gr arrow at 53# that sucker shot a chronographed speed of 308 fps. At 27" it shot 299 fps. By comparison my Nemisis and Alien Z, rated at 335 and 330 respectively chrono in the 270 to 275 range shooting that same arrow. Makes me wonder just how much things have really improved over the last few years.

The Nitrous X system had a module on each side of the base cam. The cam was positioned in the middle of the limb fork and right down the center of the riser. Everything centered. There was about 1 1/2" between the cables, but if more was needed there was (is) a kit with longer axles (3 1/4") and spacers. Cables attached to one cam and attached to the opposite limb tip; two on each side. There was a following mostly among target shooters; not so much from bowhunters.

If a person didn't want to use X cables all that was needed was a pair of split (yoke) cables and a cable rod/slide and he'd end up with a standard setup. X system made it very easy to setup and tune (no mechanical torque). Some people even found that they could change or adjust cables by just pulling the cable on the opposite side of the limb toward the riser, unhook the one needing attention, and adjust or replace it. No bow press needed or turning out the limb bolts. I also might add that there were, at least to my knowledge, virtually no limb problems even though the limb tips were not reinforced.

Alas, this cam system was done away with after only 4 years (2004-2007) and replaced by the Cat cams and sorely missed by many, myself included.

I have a 2010 Diamond Iceman with the flex guard. bow is a shooter for sure, but hard on cables. I'm not convinced about the flexdeal on Martin bows, I remember the TRG/STS too well. I like what pse has done on their new bows. I am beginning to think buying a last year model of whatever bow has the least amount of problems is really the only way to go. Let the people with lots of cash be the testers for us on fixed, er diminishing incomes. For now I'll stick with what works, a carbon rod and slide.

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Originally Posted by bob cooly

I have a 2010 Diamond Iceman with the flex guard. bow is a shooter for sure, but hard on cables. I'm not convinced about the flexdeal on Martin bows, I remember the TRG/STS too well. I like what pse has done on their new bows. I am beginning to think buying a last year model of whatever bow has the least amount of problems is really the only way to go. Let the people with lots of cash be the testers for us on fixed, er diminishing incomes. For now I'll stick with what works, a carbon rod and slide.

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A buddy of mine shoots a bowtech sentinel with a flex guard and hasn't had any troubles with it and his bow is definatly a shooter. I found with the long axle to axle of my shadowcat it has minimal cam lean if any obviously because the amount of side torgue on the cables is minimized with the longer string travel. I also found out that my accuracy at 20 yards and closer with the shadowcat is substantially better. And I like how my pin lines up with my rest, unlike the onza which is left because of cam lean the pin is substantially left of center.

Well just called Martin and my bow is there, but they won't know the "plan of action" until early next week when it is checked into the repair department.

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Originally Posted by bfisher

I only wish there was a way to make the Hybrix a shoot through. As for the Nitrous being fast? Let me put it this way. My first bow with Martin was a 2004 SlayR, IBO rated at 325 fps with C base cams. The Nitrous came in three different sizes to cover the draw length range. Mine had B cams to accommodate my 27" draw. Set up at 27.5" and shooting a 275 gr arrow at 53# that sucker shot a chronographed speed of 308 fps. At 27" it shot 299 fps. By comparison my Nemisis and Alien Z, rated at 335 and 330 respectively chrono in the 270 to 275 range shooting that same arrow. Makes me wonder just how much things have really improved over the last few years.

The Nitrous X system had a module on each side of the base cam. The cam was positioned in the middle of the limb fork and right down the center of the riser. Everything centered. There was about 1 1/2" between the cables, but if more was needed there was (is) a kit with longer axles (3 1/4") and spacers. Cables attached to one cam and attached to the opposite limb tip; two on each side. There was a following mostly among target shooters; not so much from bowhunters.

If a person didn't want to use X cables all that was needed was a pair of split (yoke) cables and a cable rod/slide and he'd end up with a standard setup. X system made it very easy to setup and tune (no mechanical torque). Some people even found that they could change or adjust cables by just pulling the cable on the opposite side of the limb toward the riser, unhook the one needing attention, and adjust or replace it. No bow press needed or turning out the limb bolts. I also might add that there were, at least to my knowledge, virtually no limb problems even though the limb tips were not reinforced.

Alas, this cam system was done away with after only 4 years (2004-2007) and replaced by the Cat cams and sorely missed by many, myself included.

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Possibly one of the best overviews of the past decade of bow technology I have read. . . ! ! !

...plus about the best discription of Martins 'X' system for people who dont understand it...

I dont get how the TRG didnt work. If you look at Strothers bows from last year & this year, they all have basically the same thing. Confused as to why the TRG didnt work but Strothers did...

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Originally Posted by WildWilt15

I also found out that my accuracy at 20 yards and closer with the shadowcat is substantially better. And I like how my pin lines up with my rest, unlike the onza which is left because of cam lean the pin is substantially left of center.

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At least with the standard black plastic slide on the rod, the Onza has excessive fletching clearance (don't know about the gray teflon piece which I have also seen in some Onzas). I replaced my original slide with a Hoyt slide, which gives a minimum fletching clearance with the Onza and clearly reduces lean - I could adjust my sight pins closer to the center after that.

EDIT: I have the gray teflon slide in my Nemesis and it is better than the black slide that I originally had in the Onza, since it brings cables closer to the center, still providing ample fletching clearance.

Back on the main topic lol I got a call from Brandon over at Martin earlier today and was working but he left me a voicemail saying that he will be shipping out a REPLACEMENT bow when I call him back, Very pleased thus far with the customer service! Great work Martin.

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Originally Posted by WildWilt15

Back on the main topic lol I got a call from Brandon over at Martin earlier today and was working but he left me a voicemail saying that he will be shipping out a REPLACEMENT bow when I call him back, Very pleased thus far with the customer service! Great work Martin.

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that is great! glad they are taking care of you