Sonny, I know what your thoughts are on the cam lean issue, but want to express my thoughts as a consumer with a little better than average mechanical aptitude.
Most people are just amazed and make reference to the many innovative changes in bows from year to year, or just over the last five years or so. It's true that they have made giant strides in riser/limb cup integrity. Limb advancement has come a long way as have cam design and materials. Bearings instead of Delrin (plastic) bushings. Bow designs themselves have lead to amazing speed gains with better efficiency.
With all the engineers working for the different companies, each trying to outdo the other, you'd think somebody could conquer the cam lean issue. Think about it. Cam lean is nothing more than the limbs being twisted as the bow is drawn. Limbs are not designed to be twisted laterally. They are designed to bend vertically. Most are aware that this is caused by the use of a cable rod/slide mechanism. With all the so-called modern achievements the cable rod/slide is almost unchanged over the last 35 years----ancient technology when compared against all the other changes.
Not that a bow can't be accurate with some cam lean. Almost any bow can be tuned if a person knows how. That's not the point. The point is we, as consumers, keep buying the latest and greatest technology when that one important aspect keeps destroying limbs and is not being dealt with. For the price paid for bows these days we should not even have to discuss something like cam lean. It will never change till the consumers demand it, but it seems the only thing consumers are worried about is the next fastest bow to hit the stores.
Sorry bfisher it was on facebook, I don't have an account but I seen it. Here it is hope it works for you guys.
Originally Posted by bfisher
I hear you, Barry. I think we discussed much before. Limbs got shorter and more stress put on them. The TiltTamer and other anti troque guide rods were supposed to make things better, but they sure aren't selling like Hot Cakes. Some are trying yoke twist limbs so cams are straight at full draw. Isn't this just exchanging cam lean from at rest to full draw? Seems to me it is. If cam lean is excessive, yes, correct it. At best one can only hope cam lean remains constant, not increase and that's what the TiltTamer, other anti-troque rods and even Martin's TRG were to do. The roller guides aren't all that well accepted either. I wouldn't have one. The ones that into the shop had "C" clips or whatever missing or axles popped loose in some manner. I didn't really look them over because I couldn't fix them anyway.
Tim Gillingham is or was a supporter of the TiltTamer, but I don't see one on his target bow or his hunting bow - both shown on Facebook just this week.
And at the present you don't see these anti-troque things Posted or replied of all that much on AT.
Years back we didn't have limb failures like today. We had way longer limbs. Cams weren't as aggressive and they were we still long limbs to take shock.
I noted way back when? My Shadowcat could almost be shot without a guide rod. I really only needed the guide rod for the taller Blazer, Twister and Fusion vanes.
I noted of the old aluminum offset guide rods. I've sold ever one we had, including the one I wanted to keep for myself.
Someone is manufacturing these rods today, but in steel and limited for the time being to bows most desired. Last released I believe were for PSE bows.
I forget who it was, Hoyt World Circuit shooter. He had the a steel offset guide. It was offset and then bent to give that little extra at full draw.
Shoot through systems and yokes will straighten cam lean, but I got a real good idea lots of hunters would be calling foul (kind of polite here).
I guess it's a compound bow, the Onieda or X something. No cam lean. It ain't got cams. It has only the bow string. All else is confind to the lobe things.
You said, Barry; the next fastest bow. Already people are discussing the coming of the 400 fps bow. I just recently looked over PSEs newest bow, 370 fps I think. Wait til you see the cams! One ut-oh and a broken egg will look gooder... And speaking of that, I saw one of those double cable do whopper bows, Prime? Some kid dry fired it. Said was the guy that brought it in was in tears. It was in a cardboard box. SK showed it to me. I thought it was stuff from my junk box.
We have bows pushing over 300 fps and faster. 400 fps is already available through High Country and their Pro Max arrows.
You know, if you don't get up in the tech race you don't miss it. My 1999 Golden Eagle, my neighbor is still hunting with it. And then I'm still hunting with my 2000 near 38" ata Hoyt MagnaTec. I used my shorty Pearson TX4 once this year.
Sonny, how ya doin'?
My friend is a Prime dealer and I've checked out their "anti-lean" system. It really isn't too complicated and seems to get the job done. I've checked how much cam lean there is in these bows ( standing behind the shooter, not in front. I'm not from Kentucky, after all) and have to say I think they've addressed the problem pretty well. I'm giving their target bow a serious look.
Still getting a long, Carlos.
We've dealt with cam lean for so long and what's the problem? People are still shooting great scores. People are still killing game and more people being successful. The only reason more people are having more success with compounds is archery sites just like ArcheryTalk and the Martin site. Information available across the board.
Some people are correcting cam lean and for what reason? So they have a better tuned bow? And if better tuned, tell me how. I mean, if my cam leaning bow can drill the bull's eye of a Field 80 yard target and the super tuned bow drills the bull's eye of the Field 80 yard target? I was talking with a ASA Senior Pro two days ago. His bow is tuned and my bow is tuned. I can't hit with his and he can't hit with mine. How about that....
This yoke tuning thing, Kitchen Sink tuning, shooting some dang string at 10 feet, what is this? I mean, for years it was twist the yoke to get the wheel or cam straight. Now, we're to shoot some string and twist which ever side of the yoke to hit the string? Excuse me because I'm lost. Say my bow is tuned enough to proceed with this string shooting thing and I'm to twist my yoke to hit the string? What about me just moving my sight and hitting the string? Is that cheating? Surely, I'm missing something. For one thing, I can't read the procedure without my brain saying; "What the H__ is this?"
I just went through one person stating he wanted his arrow straight with the bow and French Tuning wasn't the proper procedure. Excuse me? French Tuning is probably the best thing ever to use for getting prefect center shot. What is center shot? It's aligning the arrow to the true power stroke of the string. If by my understanding, we twist the limbs so the cam is straight and then induce limb torque by twisting which ever leg of yoke.
If by another proper alignment of the cam is to be at full draw and this will lead to the bow being perfectly tuned. ??? And us that don't have yokes have crummy shooting bows?
OK bows, supposed to be the best in the world, shoot through bow, cams perfectly straight, can be shot right or left handed, can be so fine tuned it can "receive radio transmissions from the far end of the universe." One on ArcheryTalk said his OK was just absolutely the best built bow in the world and was selling it because he couldn't get along with it.
Question; "Where has this OK bow won a major tournament?" If the bow was that great wouldn't some Pro be shooting one? If there is a Pro shooting one, point him or her out to me.
For once I'm going to be quiet. At least for now.
You guys hurt my head, I do not know what the heck your talking about. This is like algebra was in school.