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Thread: 3D in the UK

  1. #11
    Super Moderator Arrow Splitter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bfisher View Post
    Let it run. I find it quite educational to know how others in this world cope. It also let's others from here in the states learn just how good we have it here compared with other parts of the world.
    X2 It definitely is interesting to learn about other countries.

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  2. #12
    Member EnglishKev's Avatar
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    Hi Folks,

    Thought I would join in seeing I've been mentioned already (Hi Neil).

    Our biggest problem is that we have virtually no hunting access to public lands.
    In fact, all our ‘public lands’ are actually National Parks.
    Any control of deer etc, is mostly carried out by employed rangers.
    There are a few areas that allow paid hunting, but not that cheaply.
    Then you have private syndicates (hunt clubs).
    Someone forms a club, recruits wealthy members who pay large annual sums.
    This is then used to rent huge areas of farmland and other private ground.
    Most syndicates work the following way.
    A member wants to hunt.
    They contact the organiser who tells them which area of the lease they can hunt (you know the organiser isn’t keeping the best areas for himself LoL) and when they can go.
    If you manage to shoot a deer, then you either take the carcase to the nearest game dealers (at your expense) or if you want the meat, you pay the syndicate the market value for it.

    Firearms permits run for 5 years.
    To renew, you need two people to fill out a form and vouch for you, signed ID photo’s, and the fee.
    This is all sent to the police, and after a home visit by a firearms department officer to inspect your guns and check your gun-safe and security, you get issued with a new permit.
    You need this permit to purchase ammunition, loaded rounds and bullet heads are entered onto the permit at the time of purchase.
    Rifles are restricted to the use they are listed for, eg, you have a rifle for deer hunting, you cannot shoot anything else with it.

    There are many more restrictions, but I won’t bore you with them.

    I am lucky in that I have some access to private ground about 100 miles away, but I only really get to go there once or twice a year (I spend the weekend with a buddy and his family and we get to go shoot/hunt).

    Luckily, archery is pretty unrestricted (apart from the no hunting law) and there are a lot of clubs around and regular competitions.
    I have eight clubs within a 55mile driving range of me, many more if I want to extend that range a bit more.
    I only compete between April and October, but have 24 shoots on my list, including an eight day ‘Super-shoot’ in August, 4 different clubs, 8 different courses over a nine day period (you get a day off in the middle LoL).
    I am really looking forward to that one, I just hope it is not raining all week.

    BTW, those countries in Europe that allow bow hunting require either an IBEP or their own national qualification before you can hunt.
    A lot of them also require qualification for firearms hunting.

    Kev

  3. #13
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    Kev, you forgot to mention that each rifle you have on your certificate has to be listed by calibre. So, If you want a .222 Swift or a .308w, etc, you have to request this calibre of rifle is put on your certificate and what that rifle will be used for. Also, unless things have changed, you have a quantity limit on the amount of ammunition of any given calibre you can BUY and that you can HOLD. You can play the system a little, by saying you only wish to BUY 100 rounds of .308w at a time (if you home load), but that you wish to HOLD 500 rounds (because you home load).

    At one time I had permission to buy 1000 rounds of .22 rimfire and hold 2000 and also when pistols were legal and I was shooting a lot of PP1500 I had permission to hold 2500 of .357.

    I recall a home visit, when a local Police Officer, unfamiliar with firearms, could not understand how I was allowed to own 15 handguns Apparently he had an 'interesting' chat with the secretary of the shooting club I belonged to, who pointed out that it was none of his concern how many FIREARMS (the copper kept calling them guns) I had, as I already had a certificate to cover them all.

    Oh and lastly, you never ask for 7.62mm or 5.56mm, as they are Military calibre's. However, .308w or .223r are fine!

  4. #14
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    This post has been very interesting. We Americans do take for granted how well we have it....however I'm sure Barry and others will agree, we here in America are digressing back to a period liken to when it was considered what I call the "Kings Deer" as my ancestery is Scotch Irish hence my last name "McClure". It is becoming here in America very much like it was back then and to some degree now in the UK.
    I will watch some of the hunting shows on TV over here and I will hear the host or advertisers who are promoting a product say such thing as "guaranteed to make "your" deer grow bigger", watch "your" deers numbers increase etc. or put up game fences to keeps "public" deer from escaping or...inhibitting their ability move from one area to another.
    If we Americans aren't careful deer will cease to be a public asset and be like wild or feral hogs are here in the U.S. where they are considered to be the property of the landowner in which they occur.
    There was a time back in the 70's and 80's (in Florida at least) where if you had a hunting license you didn't have to worry about being arrested for hunting on property which wasn't yours and being convicted of a felony (maybe not all areas but in some). Yes it was technically illigal but people looked at it as "one of Americas pastimes" and hunting and guns are as American as anything and what is the harm...it wasn't like you were comitting an egregious act or anything.
    Some of these host "talk out both sides of there mouth" which in one instance they want you to go buy that new rifle, bow, 4 wheeler etc. and to "take a kid hunting" (ahh...future consumers of their products). Then when the items are purchased they can't afford to use them in a quality area since the land has been leased to the wealthy hunt clubs...hmmm where have we heard this before..........oh yeah from our bretheren in the UK who have posted on here...see a pattern America...food for thought.

  5. #15
    Member EnglishKev's Avatar
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    [
    QUOTE=SonnyThomas;51769]EnglishKev, you were not boring. I had heard many of things you noted and a quite a few I hadn't. One being you can own a firearm for a a specific purpose. I also heard you had to store it at a safe place, usually a police station. You then signed it out and, I guess, noted when it would be returned.[/QUOTE]

    Hey Sonny,

    Weapons held for sporting purpose are held at home, but a spscified gunsafe is required, and if you hold over a certain number, additional security has to be fitted (I had to instal an alarm system).
    Ammo has to be locked away seperately.
    I have two ammo lockers, and two gun safes.
    To be able to buy expanding ammunition (legally required for hunting purposes) I also had to be issued with a special permit.
    You are correct in that some firearms use solely for target shooting are held in secure lockups at gunclubs and the owners sign them out when required.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeilMac View Post
    Kev, you forgot to mention that each rifle you have on your certificate has to be listed by calibre. So, If you want a .222 Swift or a .308w, etc, you have to request this calibre of rifle is put on your certificate and what that rifle will be used for. Also, unless things have changed, you have a quantity limit on the amount of ammunition of any given calibre you can BUY and that you can HOLD. You can play the system a little, by saying you only wish to BUY 100 rounds of .308w at a time (if you home load), but that you wish to HOLD 500 rounds (because you home load).

    At one time I had permission to buy 1000 rounds of .22 rimfire and hold 2000 and also when pistols were legal and I was shooting a lot of PP1500 I had permission to hold 2500 of .357.

    I recall a home visit, when a local Police Officer, unfamiliar with firearms, could not understand how I was allowed to own 15 handguns Apparently he had an 'interesting' chat with the secretary of the shooting club I belonged to, who pointed out that it was none of his concern how many FIREARMS (the copper kept calling them guns) I had, as I already had a certificate to cover them all.

    Oh and lastly, you never ask for 7.62mm or 5.56mm, as they are Military calibre's. However, .308w or .223r are fine!
    Ammunition allowances have been cut drastically in the last few years, you need to have a really good reason if you want to keep more than 100 rounds of each caliber.
    I have to argue at every renewal for mine.
    Another major pain is that if you decide you want to swop in your .243 Remington deer rifle for, say, a newer .243 Remington deer rifle, you have to apply for a 'variation' to your permit (and pay the required fee) in order to be able to do so.
    Then once done the police have to be notified that it has been done.

    We do have one or two plus things, for example, my prefered varmint rifle is a .223 Remington PSS model 700, barrel shortened to 22'', theaded 5/8'' and fitted with a full length sound moderator.
    My .22 rimfire is also moderated.
    The silencers require their own permits, but under health and safety, and noise pollution rules it is almost impossible for the authorities to refuse the grant of the permit

    Kev

  6. #16
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    Sonny, I agree with you (see red) however along the same line of thought...is Matthew's reasoning for the inception of NASP to truly get more kids and youngsters into archery or is it to make more revenue for the company as I believe they sell for a given price a certain amount of bulk equipment to get started...not bashing, just curious.


    Quote Originally Posted by SonnyThomas View Post
    scepterman30x, yes, the U.S. is turning towards the wealthy. Much property in my state is under lease by hunters. On the high side, $8,000 to $10,000 for a goose pit. Six day archery deer hunts, $2,000.00. Firearms is more considering 3 day and four day hunts, heard was $3,500.00. As for myself, should I sell our property/home site I'll more than likely give up hunting altogether.

    On the sad side, I've picked up some awful good archery tackle through those giving up archery. They just can't afford leases or property they have hunted for years was leased out from under them. Worse yet, how are kids today supposed to learn hunting? At 11 years old my hunting began with rabbits and squirrels. Leased property is not for squirrel or rabbit hunting and if it is allowed there is hunting fee to pay....

    "Take a kid hunting" enrages me. How many parents can afford a hunt for a family of two, three or four at $2,000.00 per hunter?

    Slam me, dang me or hang me;
    Though I have helped in some fashion to get NASP started in local schools I am not a true supporter of NASP. Sure, great to have kids in archery in schools, but this "the future of archery" thing doesn't cut it with me. NASP has been in schools for a while and yes, there are thousands of kids in NASP, but no numbers have been given as to the archery numbers growing outside of school. One person has spoke of graduating schoolers, but hoping for something like 1 percent, I believe. And then these kids entering archery spread out over all forms of archery, hunting, spots, 3D, FITA and so forth.

    Two points other than school kids being introduced to archery; 1) Dollar income to archery manufacturers. 2) NASP is aimed at spots only. Yes, there are NASP events listed for 3D, but as of yet I haven't seen one. Still, I would thank those that started archery in schools, the originators and Mathews.At one time our club offered to put on a 3D for NASP students, target distances kept to that in the schools. To see the look on faces and hear the groans and muttering you would have thought I brought forth the Black Plague.

    However, our club has hosted three Future Farmers of America 3D Championships. The Championship was began through the local FFA Instructor and offered state wide. We have had some 16 schools compete. The Championship is for individuals and teams. Some schools have had more than one team.

  7. #17
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  8. #18
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    These pics were taken at a National 3D Championship, but as the course setters for the champs are just local club members, it was exactly the same as any decent club shoot.

    On arrows: My ShadowCat works best with 340 spine arrows. I have tried a few brands, trying to keep the weight down, and I'm currently using a Swiss brand called Sky Art. The UK rep has been trying to persuade me to use some more expensive shafts, as they are straighter, better made etc. He has a good point, but I told him that I regard arrows as expendable. There are times when you get things wrong, and I have seen people on shoots, walking back from a target with a $40 arrow broken in two, they look sick.

    We have very few permanent 3D courses over here, so it encourages clubs to really use the terrain and you do get some fantastically real layouts. Course setters also like to use light and shade or maybe a little bit of cover or a dead straight row of trees to fool the eye, as well as animals quartered towards or away from the shooting pegs or up / down steep slopes.

  9. #19
    Member minnie's Avatar
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    thanks for sharing your photos. i could swear that some look like they could have been taken at our club grounds near coffs harbour nsw australia. we have about 40 acres to play with, which has pine forest, short steep rainforest gullies with a permanent creek, an interesting old arboretrum, big eucalypts and some open grass areas. terrain can change from one shot to the next.

  10. #20
    Senior Member peace's Avatar
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    Talking Thanks Gents....

    Thanks for the overseas trip, it was a pleasure to read about and see a 3D setup in the UK. Hearing about the repression of gun rights and hunting privileges keeps one alert to the ever harsh environment here in the states. Well goodonya, chaps, and cheerios and fruit loops too, peace.

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