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Thread: Martin Archery in 2013

  1. #31
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    I have a half dozen recent Martin/Rytera bows, and probably 30 Martin/Howatt recurve/longbows. I have probably set-up a couple of dozen Martin/Rytera bows for friends.

    Here are my suggestions to Martin, if they are interested:

    1. Build a couple of versions of ILF risers and a range of limbs. Maybe a wood riser (17") and an aluminum riser (19"). Hoyt Excel and Tradtech risers would be a good examples of these.

    2. Supply your bows with strings/cables that do not need to be replaced as soon as you buy the bow. The serving in the cam area should not be wearing out after a hundred shots. If this is the case, redesign the cam, finish the cam differently, or supply strings/cables with serving that can withstand the wear.

    3. Supply your customers with more tuning information. A lot of shooters like to tune their bows to obtain the best performance. Give them as much information as you can. Dealers cannot be expected to spend hours tweaking customers bows.

    4. Produce a riser that can handle 80-90# draw weights for heavy animals, ie: Cape Buffalo, etc. I put a set of Barnesdale 80# limbs on an Alien-X and the riser was bending so bad that the string derailed off the cam. Ended up having to buy a Mathews Monster Safari (Mathews...yuk!!!) to get an 87# bow.

    5. Multiple sight mounting holes is a great idea that should be on all bows!

    6. In general, your bows shoot good, maybe a little louder than some, and a little more vibration. The draw cycle on the Hybrix cams is excellent!

    Hope you folks continue to produce great archery products for years to come!

    Thanks!
    Dean

  2. #32
    Super Moderator bfisher's Avatar
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    Dean,

    With all due respect I'd like to address some of your suggestions:

    1. I won't comment on the traditional line as I have been away from it for decades.

    2. Martin is putting some pretty good strings on their bows these days and the serving is decent, too. The strings have very little creep and in most cases just a hint of peep rotation so they are far above most of the competition in this respect. The reason for premature serving wear is being caused by sharp edges in the cam and module grooves. At least that has been what I've found. So this part I do have to agree with. I don't think it would be so hard to change the machining procedure to alleviate this problem. I know that compared with the Cat/Nitro/Hybrix cams the Nitrous cams were machined with nice round edges in and around the string grooves and exhibited none of the wear being seen today.

    I have started taking a rattail file to mine and it seems to be working out well. Something that the average shooter doesn't know about nor should have to be messing with.

    3. People these days are more educated about tuning bows and there is already tons of information available for people to do their own tuning. I'm not talking about initial setups. I think we can expect dealer to mount accessories and set them up to basic parameters. After that it's up to the owner to shoot and tune their equipment and if they don't know how or refuse to take the time to do so then they can go back to the dealer and pay to have it done. Dealers should not be expected to TUNE equipment without compensation.

    4. With these days of long risers and parallel limbs making risers for 80# or heavier bows would call for a pretty heavy piece of aluminum and the end result would have to be pretty beefy, too. I don't think the market is large enough to justify the expense. Suppose, for example, Martin produces and sells 30,000 bow per year (It's probably more). How many people really are going to order bows above 80#? Maybe a hundred or so? Just doesn't make much business sense to design the machining and go through the hassle when the present risers will handle what 99.9# of the shooters want and need. I think before going this route I'd try to find out just how many Safaris Mathews sells and then decide if this small market is worth sharing.

    I'm more in agreement with those who would like to see some decent youth and lady's bow. Let's call it the smaller framed shooters as there are shorter men, too. This would probably be a more lucrative market in the long run.

    5. Multiple sight mounting holes would be a plus. They have them on the Scepter V. All it would call for is slightly different riser machining--and checking who has the patent on it right now. You know how sue happy these companies are?

    6. From what I understand Martin has been and is continuing to address the noise and vibration issue. I've been told they have been doing tests on the
    3 pc risers and checking out the limbs. It's become a priority for 2013. Don't be surprised to see better quality limbs on future bows.

    One thing I'd like to see is for a company (Martin) grab the bull by the horns and abandon the specs used for IBO speed ratings. The 30", 70#, 350gr arrow nonsense is just that--nonsense. The majority of shooters are closer to 28-28.5" draw length and more and more are starting to find their way down from 70# to 60# draw weights. But do the speed testing at 28" and 60#, and with 5gr/lb arrow and 6gr/lb. And do so by shooting and not computing. Physically measure the draw lengh and draw weight for accuracy and post figures based on that. And no fudging. Maybe do like Bowtech used to do and supply a birth certificate with each bow. and if a bow doesn't make it's projected figures it doesn't leave the factory.

    Hope my views haven't offended you or discourage you fom posting. Your opinions are as valid as mine andho knows, Martin just might respond with some good ideas for next year.
    Last edited by bfisher; 07-17-2012 at 01:24 PM.
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  3. #33
    Senior Member WildWilt15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bfisher View Post
    Dean,

    With all due respect I'd like to address some of your suggestions:

    1. I won't comment on the traditional line as I have been away from it for decades.

    2. Martin is putting some pretty good strings on their bows these days and the serving is decent, too. The strings have very little creep and in most cases just a hint of peep rotation so they are far above most of the competition in this respect. The reason for premature serving wear is being caused by sharp edges in the cam and module grooves. At least that has been what I've found. So this part I do have to agree with. I don't think it would be so hard to change the machining procedure to alleviate this problem. I know that compared with the Cat/Nitro/Hybrix cams the Nitrous cams were machined with nice round edges in and around the string grooves and exhibited none of the wear being seen today.

    I have started taking a rattail file to mine and it seems to be working out well. Something that the average shooter doesn't know about nor should have to be messing with.

    3. People these days are more educated about tuning bows and there is already tons of information available for people to do their own tuning. I'm not talking about initial setups. I think we can expect dealer to mount accessories and set them up to basic parameters. After that it's up to the owner to shoot and tune their equipment and if they don't know how or refuse to take the time to do so then they can go back to the dealer and pay to have it done. Dealers should not be expected to TUNE equipment without compensation.

    4. With these days of long risers and parallel limbs making risers for 80# or heavier bows would call for a pretty heavy piece of aluminum and the end result would have to be pretty beefy, too. I don't think the market is large enough to justify the expense. Suppose, for example, Martin produces and sells 30,000 bow per year (It's probably more). How many people really are going to order bows above 80#? Maybe a hundred or so? Just doesn't make much business sense to design the machining and go through the hassle when the present risers will handle what 99.9# of the shooters want and need. I think before going this route I'd try to find out just how many Safaris Mathews sells and then decide if this small market is worth sharing.

    I'm more in agreement with those who would like to see some decent youth and lady's bow. Let's call it the smaller framed shooters as there are shorter men, too. This would probably be a more lucrative market in the long run.

    5. Multiple sight mounting holes would be a plus. They have them on the Scepter V. All it would call for is slightly different riser machining--and checking who has the patent on it right now. You know how sue happy these companies are?

    6. From what I understand Martin has been and is continuing to address the noise and vibration issue. I've been told they have been doing tests on the
    3 pc risers and checking out the limbs. It's become a priority for 2013. Don't be surprised to see better quality limbs on future bows.

    One thing I'd like to see is for a company (Martin) grab the bull by the horns and abandon the specs used for IBO speed ratings. The 30", 70#, 350gr arrow nonsense is just that--nonsense. The majority of shooters are closer to 28-28.5" draw length and more and more are starting to find their way down from 70# to 60# draw weights. But do the speed testing at 28" and 60#, and with 5gr/lb arrow and 6gr/lb. And do so by shooting and not computing. Physically measure the draw lengh and draw weight for accuracy and post figures based on that. And no fudging. Maybe do like Bowtech used to do and supply a birth certificate with each bow. and if a bow doesn't make it's projected figures it doesn't leave the factory.

    Hope my views haven't offended you or discourage you fom posting. Your opinions are as valid as mine andho knows, Martin just might respond with some good ideas for next year.
    I agree with everything your saying but the strings issue. The strings i have on my onza are great but my saber takedown string have serving issues straight from the factory 50 shots in the servings on both ends unraveled my buddy who bought the same bow had the same issues he bought a hammerhead string and i reserved it myself both of which we should not have had to do right away with a new bow i think they need to change the serving material coming with the dacron strings on the takedowns (not sure what comes with a true wood bow) But your spot on B. Besides the strings issue which im pretty sure is what dean was talking about.
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  4. #34
    Senior Member NuttyNative's Avatar
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    I would like to see Martin get rid of the exposed limb bolts. I think it makes them look cheap and weak just sticking through the riser an inch or so. They could go back to the 09 style or use the Rytera's as an example. Like alot of others have said, quality control, on things like chipped finishes, sharpie fixes on cams & idlers, burrs on cams & mods just to name a few. Loose the quick disconnect mounts, not as quick as you'd think. I also believe that is a spot for noise & vibration to creep in.
    This has nothing to do with improving the product, but I would also like to see them include at least a decal with a new bow. Other manufacturers include a hat and decal to further advertise, acknowledge their customers, and kinda say thank you.

    Others have suggested a youth or ladies bow. With that new Fury X cam I think they have that now with the right limb choice. My wifes has 55-70lb limbs and is set at 39lbs and is so smooth and easy to shoot. I can only imagine what a set of 35-50 or 40-55 limbs would be like with that cam. Maybe some competetive youth/ladies color/camo options and patterns?
    Last edited by NuttyNative; 07-18-2012 at 10:34 AM.
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  5. #35
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    bfisher,

    Thanks for sharing your views on the topics that I listed! I guess that I cannot comment on any of the 2012 bows, as I do not own any of them, but I own 4 Aliens, and have set up another half dozen, and the serving that attaches to the inner peg on the cam on ALL the cables are seperating. Also, if you don't debur the mods, it wears the serving. Your typical consumer is probably not going to remove their mods and start deburring them. Most would probably make more of a mess of the stiuation. Martin should have changed the design or finishing of the mods before they were sold to the consumer. Having to spend another $100 on string/cables after you buy a new bow seems rediculious! That's like buying a brand new car and having to replace the tires after the first 100 miles because they suck so bad!

    Elite Archery has excellent tuning info on their web page, Martin could easily do the same. Keep it all in one place, and accurate! I can't tell you how many "Internet Experts" there are out there! Martin should know thier products better than anyone!!!

    I understand about the economics of the heavy draw weight bows, it would just be great to be able to use a Martin bow. Maybe it wouldn't be that expensive if they were built by request only?

    I think the Exile is their lady/youth bow. They do have some overlap in their models that is not that obvious why they exist, ie: Exile vs. Exile Pro???

    Thanks again for sharing your views on these topics, it helps hearing other peoples perspectives!
    Dean
    Last edited by DeanRM; 07-18-2012 at 11:17 AM.

  6. #36
    Super Moderator bfisher's Avatar
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    Wilt,
    I think I remember reading about loose serving on the traditional bows. They might have been yours. I do have to apologize in that I deal mainly with the compound bows and sometimes forget about the traditional line. I certainly won't dispute your findings. You've experienced it and I have not.

    Nutty,
    I see your point about the limb bolts showing, but I kind of like it. It does give us a view of the bolt when doing maintenance chores and backing the limb bolts out. With almost all other bows the bolts go into a blind pocket so you really have no idea of how much bolt is left as you back them off.
    The subject of the quick disconnects comes up every once in a while. Don't take this to the bank, but from what I've been told don't be surprised to see them go away and be replaced with pressed-in steel bushings.

    At least we're all on the same page in one respect. We're making suggestions from the consumers point of view on how to improve the line of bows. Not change them drastically every year, but improve the overall quality. I'm sure we would all like to see this company not only survive, but progress and broaden their presence in the archery market and gain more respect.
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  7. #37
    Senior Member NuttyNative's Avatar
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    Barry, I see your logic on the limb bolts, but honestly they shouldn't back off. The blind pockets offer threads all the way down and I personally like the sleek looks, just looks cleaner and stronger to me.

    Not stirrin the pot, just picture proof on attention to detail or lack thereof. Pulled my new 2011 Ridge Hunter out of the bag a few minutes ago & gave it a look see. Had a few spots in the dip, nothing loose or missing, just look like small water spots that are very small, no issue. Changed out the draw mod & went to set the draw stop and something looked funny. The draw stop rubber pad was mounted to the wrong side of the limb. No biggie, BUT something that should have never happened OR been caught in the 2nd inspection.

    You get enough of these small details wrong and the snowball effect can take over & it's fuel for the bashers. I have heard more than one dealer complain about that from Martin.

    One more, this may be a personal thing. I understand the logic & pride behind the gold & copper coins that are set inside the risers. From a hunters perspective I don't want anything shiny that can cast a reflective twinkle while hunting. Maybe they could offer a green anodized or dipped one as an option. I cover mine with sight window fleece. A quarter is the perfect template for that.
    Last edited by NuttyNative; 07-18-2012 at 06:03 PM.
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  8. #38
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    Default Not sure if anyone saw this

    Attachment 1397548

    WALLA WALLA – Recently, Martin Archery hired Jason Erdmann as National Sales Director. Erdmann,
    a Wenatchee native, is an accomplished archer and brings strong leadership experience from his past positions.

    After completing his undergraduate degree, Erdmann owned his own very successful archery shop, J & J Archery,
    for four years in Wenatchee, WA. Erdmann was able to put in the first Techno Hunt in Washington, while setting
    up national competitions and local archery shoots. Since this time, he stayed in the outdoor business by running
    and operating Wild Focus Productions. Some of the articles, TV shows, and videos he’s written and produced can
    be viewed at Wildfocus.biz and on the Outdoor Channel.

    Most recently, Erdmann has held several senior administrative positions in private educational systems in Southern
    California. Before going into education Erdmann was a Washington State Wrestling Champion and college athlete
    until a shoulder injury ended his wrestling career.

    In addition to an insider’s understanding of archery retailing, Erdmann’s sales and business development experience
    has provided him with a strong understanding of territory development; sales management; problem solving; as well as
    account management and customer service. He has been recognized throughout his career for his ability to lead and
    motivate individuals to accomplish a common goal.

    Gail Martin the founder of Martin Archery said: “We are delighted to welcome Jason and his family to Walla Walla. His
    enthusiasm for archery and knowledge of the retail environment will be of great value in rounding out our management team.”

    Jason and his wife, Susan, are in the process of moving with their two children from Southern California. They will all be
    positive additions to the Walla Walla community.

    Martin Archery provides valuable jobs and out-of-state revenue to the local Walla Walla economy. Additional information
    on the company and Martin Compound and Traditional Bows can be found at MartinArchery.com

    # # #

    For more information: Ken Melhus, Martin Communications Director (800) 540-8902
    MartinArchery.com
    Wildfocus.biz
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by bfisher View Post
    What area of the country are you in and who is your sales rep?
    Morgantown WV

  10. #40
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    bfisher, I agree with pretty much everything you have said except for quality strings. they are not the correct length, not even color count, and served terribly. I have 1-2011 onza 1-2012 cougar 2cam, 1-2012 onza, and 1-2012 exile for the wife. I am absolutely in love with the smoothness of the draw on all of these bows. I believe that Martin bows are some of the finest DESIGNED today. However, the EXECUTION and attention to detail is lacking. I have set up bows for customers that shoot very quiet and smooth and set up others of the same model that we end up returning or refuse to the customer. I learned the importance for attention to detail in the Marine Corps and I think some of the Martin assemblers should go to Paris Island and learn the Marine way. Quality control and attention to detail would help propel them to the top. They have designed a nice looking, fast shooting, accurate/forgiving bow that should be beating out Mathews and Hoyt especially with such a low price point. I have had limbs come in 5lbs under design weight. strings 1.25" long, cables .75" long. cam bushings not pressed in perfectly, which results in it hitting the limb. I have also seen limbs explode and shadowcat risers come out of alignment. I am lucky to have a shop at my disposal and am able to make my strings. I think they should get rid of the quick disconnect as well, it really doesn't work well. Also an offset cable guard for extra vane clearance would be nice. I am a spot shooter as well as a hunter, How about other target color options and a camo pattern that matches up with accessories' patterns Vista camo doesn't look nice with anything except for Black, and some guys want camo sights, quivers, stabs, etc. In my opinion the persons doing the quality control checklists should be held accountable for their work after all, you are holding something with great energy right next to your face and eyes and putting a lot of faith in the manufacturer of the product. A bow is no less dangerous than a gun, if something isn't correct it can kill or seriously injure you. I would gladly pay an extra hundred for the same bows that are put together and checked more accurately.

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