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Thread: Pro staff???

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJunior View Post
    Not what I asked Chip.

    A companies pro staff is a big part of marketing. You may think it is not important but it is, it puts the product in front of a wide range of people in turn peaks the interest of possible customers. The podium does that.
    I know this is an old thread, but this statement above is one I hear repeated by lots of folks and it make no sense. Tim Gillingham is a friend, but how many people outside of 3D archery know who he is? What percentage of hunters know him? If your object is to sell to 3D archers, rock on. Bow companies through money into 3D when money would be better spent marketing to hunters, who make up the largest majority.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClydeWigg3 View Post
    I know this is an old thread, but this statement above is one I hear repeated by lots of folks and it make no sense. Tim Gillingham is a friend, but how many people outside of 3D archery know who he is? What percentage of hunters know him? If your object is to sell to 3D archers, rock on. Bow companies through money into 3D when money would be better spent marketing to hunters, who make up the largest majority.
    Well, I think you're off base. More...No. Tons of money is spent advertising hunting bows compared to target bows. Think of the money "thrown" to those people making hunting shows. How many target bow shows do you see? 3D is still considered hunting practice and money is "thrown" to those who rank at the top and get that wanted attention. More, we that target shoot, we just can't walk into any archery shop and find what we want. It's all hunting. By and large target bows, long target stabs, V brackets, back bars, target arrows, and sights have to be ordered. Consider bow hunting accessories are much advertised, sights and stablizer. When's the last time you saw a 30" target stabilizer or $250.00 moveable target sight frame advertised? And then sight frames need scope housing and lenses that may run over $200.00.
    My bare hunting bow cost right at $675.00 not including tax. Rest, sights, stabilizer and arrows included to didn't crack $900.00. My target bow lists $920. Add stabilizer, back bars, sights and arrows and I'm over $1500.00...nearer $1700.00.

    Paycheck wise of 3D. Only a handful have contracts that allow full time archery. I doubt a dozen. The rest have jobs just like you and me (retired now). Hoyt, Mathews and PSE being the highest paying and supporting 3D through contingency money heads and shoulders above all others.

    I see you have Martin listed and no other bow. Where's your complaint coming from?
    Last edited by Sonny Thomas; 07-13-2014 at 10:35 AM.
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  3. #23
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    I can see what Greg is saying. Serious 3D shooters don't really need a shop that carries everything they want or need. They know what they want and know where to order it, which is more than likely going to be some place like Lancaster Archery. The average bowhunter, by comparison, needs a shop that stocks the more commonly used hunting equipment/accessories. Even this stuff can amount to tens of thousands of dollars in inventory so a shop owner has to stock what he thinks is going to move out the door.

    Think about it. Just take sights for example. There must be 200 or more different sights on the market. There are probably well over 100 different rests. How many shops do you think can stock all this stuff. What's going to sell the most? Hunting supplies, that's what.

    Using Sonny's figures a shop might sell a half dozen of those $1500 3D/target setups a year where as he'll sell 100 of those $600 to $900 hunting setups. In all reality where would you invest your money if you were a shop owner?
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    Boys, I was noting hunting and 3D target bows as to advertising dollars 3D dollars. And while I'm at it, it's not just bow manufacturers that shell out 3D dollars. Sight, arrow, rest companies and more hand out contingency money. For ASA, cities or parks get contracts. Dollar value I don't know, but restaurants, motel and tourist attractions well support these city/ASA contracts. Metropolis, the city, had up for grabs $10,000.00 for the city shoot with a one time entry fee of just $20.00! Don't tell me it was out of the kinds of Metropolis's heart....

    Having been a manager of small shop I knew not to carry target items or bows. For special order target items I required 50% down before I ordered.

    Yes, Lancaster is the place to order target items, but the problem is we can't try out the item, even if just hands on. We buy it, it's wrong for our target set up, we're stuck with. Just last year I bought a "you gotta have" Doinker Supreme Fatty stabilizer. It felt "junk" just holding my bow. One shot and it's now basking in the sun over in Hawaii...if the new owner hasn't pitched in the ocean or some volcano.

    And for the bow hunting advertisement....How much was Laura getting from Martin back then? Said inexpensive photo shoot models get $275 per hour and usually one and two days longs. Yep, just hunting shows take hours and days of film footage before you get a 30 minute show. And the cost of hunting bow ads in those magazines. Lord! Those full page glossy ads aren't cheap by a long shot.
    Last edited by Sonny Thomas; 07-13-2014 at 04:31 PM.
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    lololol..... Sonny, if you'd allow me, may I shorten your post down to where most anyone should be able to understand ?? I'll take that as a 'yes';

    "Follow the money."
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClydeWigg3 View Post
    I know this is an old thread, but this statement above is one I hear repeated by lots of folks and it make no sense. Tim Gillingham is a friend, but how many people outside of 3D archery know who he is? What percentage of hunters know him? If your object is to sell to 3D archers, rock on. Bow companies through money into 3D when money would be better spent marketing to hunters, who make up the largest majority.


    Quote Originally Posted by FishingandHuntingUSA View Post
    I am not sure if you even know what your talking about at this point, you do not make any sense.

    Have a nice day
    All that I replied was to the above bold. Hunting bows get the biggest chunk of publicity/advertising dollars, period. Bow companies that support 3D do so for a reason.

    Still, the subject can not be held to just 3D. It has to include the paper target crowd. Winners of Vegas having been walking away with some $40,000.00 for some time for 3 days "work." Somebody is paying for Dave Cousin, Eric Jones, Chance Beaubuef and more to compete around the world, not just in the United States. Yes, all they have to do is show up, because everything is paid for...flights, rooms, eats, drinks, entry fees and whatever else. Again, bow companies and archery related companies foot the bill for a reason.

    2011? Martin Platinum Staff Shooter John Wheeler sets new record at Las Vegas. Gail Martin presents John with $300 per each of John's three 300s and gives John a Shadowcat with dip scheme of $100 bills. Betcha Gail did that for a reason... Anybody can kill a deer. I've averaged right at 3 deer per year for the last 3 years and I'm not a deer hunter...Throw a target up and I'm there. The hell with the deer.
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  7. #27
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    I think a big part of what Sonny is saying is;
    Pete Shepley, Hoyt and Mathews are not stupid in how they spend advertising dollars. They didn't get to be the 'Big Three' by being so. A small part of the industry, perhaps, but target shooting makes the 'news'. A guy with a twenty-nine inch tree stand bow sees Hoyt win an Olympic medal with a sixty inch Hoyt recurve will tell his buddies "See, that's why I shoot Hoyt!! They're darn sure shooters!" Everyday consumers, of which I include myself, will equate more with the brand name than the actual bows themselves. Last winter I watched several target competitions on the computer and found myself pulling for PSE to win simply because I like PSE, and Martin wasn't on the line to root for. The type of bow didn't matter, the brand name did. Good publicity sells. Winning recurves get the brand name out there and that helps sell hunting bows - likewise with 3D bows that win, make the 'news'. Don't believe me; ask Pete why PSE puts big money into maintaining target teams. {:>).... best to all... o
    Last edited by otisT; 07-14-2014 at 12:06 PM.
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  8. #28
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    It's quite funny to read what you are arguing about, as from my location and thus point of view everything is completely vice versa.

    We do not have advertisements for hunting, we have no hunting shows and we see rarely camo bows - only if people are demanding it. Why is that so? Because here hunting with the bow is prohibited, it is forbidden and whoever starts to talk about that will be kind of harassed. Don't dare to even think about that! You get some stuff as people are traveling around to get the possibilities, but only a few.

    So in fact we have not that many shops, but mostly medium to larger ones. Any shop has to store a number of target rigs with basic setups and all that stuff you need. And not only brand, but at least 3 or 4 brands, so the customer can choose. Backordering stuff isn't very welcome here, so shops have to keep everything ready to sell, beside some stuff which is not on their list.

    The majority here does not watch hunting shows but only takes a look at the pro staff shooters competing all over the world, no matter if Recurve or Compound. Most archers will know the 'big names' from Hoyt and PSE, Mathews is rarely seen over here so most people do not care about them. But whenever there is an international shoot there is a lot of interest focused on that event, and people really care about 'what the pro just said'.

    Just my part from the other side of the medal..
    (2) Hoyt PCEXL

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  10. #29
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    Wow! Thanks for that post, Montalaar; it should give everyone here food for thought, reflection, humility for what we take for granted... Thanks... o
    Anything I may post is in no way meant to besmirch anyone or any entity in any way, so please don't take it, wrongly, as such. Thank You.

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  12. #30
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    Perhaps answers are not in the right realm of things. "Throw money at 3D." Is it of the big bucks 3D shooters make? I think I noted money, but not in the sense of money to hunters. How would you go about it?

    Rambling;

    Deer hunting.....4 types? One, the meat hunter, takes anything that will eat. Two, only a buck will do. Three, trophy hunter. Now, the trophy hunter takes what looks impressive on the wall and/or in the record books. Four, the low life, the one that hunter just for the sake of killing something....

    Would we go by number of deer harvest per year? Hey, we have to stay with current models of bows. Joe Blow killed 19 deer this year with his [fill in blank]. 19 deer? Probably wouldn't go over with the general public - bad relations already tipsy. Don Hoe killed the new Iowa state record buck with [fill in blank"]. Might go over. Don's brother, no relation (), killed new world record buck. Should go over.
    Now, x number of state records. How would you pay off? Different with typical versus non-typical? Now, the world record buck should garner top dollar.....But then, record book bucks are sold. This sort of down plays that record book buck. Noted was bucks scoring 200 bring as much as $20,000.00, no questions asked. How many world record bucks are kept by the owner? And then the majority of world record bucks were found dead. I know of one world record buck, still the top deer to beat for archery, was sold for a tidy some. Yep, the man holds the record, but doesn't own the mount. ??? So this buck has been reigning for 47 years. Kinda long dry spell for some one waiting for a pay check from [fill in blank].

    Of course deer aren't the only game hunted....Grizzly, black bear, elk and so on....
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