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Thread: Cam lean on brand new alien

  1. #21
    joelc
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    Quote Originally Posted by alienshooter View Post
    I'm glad joelc of "Martin Archery" cleared this up for me...I've been schooled!
    lol. I don't know about schooled. Sadly though this whole discussion started from one thread on ArcheryTalk 6 or 7 years ago and every archer is now paying the price with misinformation and worry. In a perfect world everything would align and lean wouldn't exist...that's why we created the X system. I'd bore you guys with the reason we dont offer it any longer but maybe that's better suited for a phone call.

  2. #22
    Senior Member wscywabbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joelc View Post
    lol. I don't know about schooled. Sadly though this whole discussion started from one thread on ArcheryTalk 6 or 7 years ago and every archer is now paying the price with misinformation and worry. In a perfect world everything would align and lean wouldn't exist...that's why we created the X system. I'd bore you guys with the reason we dont offer it any longer but maybe that's better suited for a phone call.
    Or maybe it would be better suited to a discussion on another thread, as I'm sure there are plenty of people that would LOVE to be bored with that info!
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  3. #23
    joelc
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    Quote Originally Posted by wscywabbit View Post
    Or maybe it would be better suited to a discussion on another thread, as I'm sure there are plenty of people that would LOVE to be bored with that info!
    No way...I've had my words twisted too many times online to go down that road. Just yesterday a user on this very thread immediately ran to ArcheryTalk to start a similar thread based on my opinion. Just to clear the air...Martin Archery has NOTHING to do with ArcheryTalk.

  4. #24
    String builder/ Super Moderator Hutch~n~Son Archery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joelc View Post
    No way...I've had my words twisted too many times online to go down that road. Just yesterday a user on this very thread immediately ran to ArcheryTalk to start a similar thread based on my opinion. Just to clear the air...Martin Archery has NOTHING to do with ArcheryTalk.
    Yeah Joelc, he is known for that! I think he was banned on here once for the same thing. Guess he likes twisting words, but a lot of members over there set the record straight.

    http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1992954


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  5. #25
    joelc
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hutch~n~Son Archery View Post
    Yeah Joelc, he is known for that! I think he was banned on here once for the same thing. Guess he likes twisting words, but a lot of members over there set the record straight.

    http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1992954


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  6. #26
    Super Moderator bfisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wscywabbit View Post
    Or maybe it would be better suited to a discussion on another thread, as I'm sure there are plenty of people that would LOVE to be bored with that info!


    If I may add my .02 with some schooling I'd like to add that "cam lean" is really a misnomer. Unless the cam is machined incorrectly, bent, the axle holes in the limb are drilled crooked, or an axle is bent a bow doesn't have cam lean. What is going on is that the limb tips are torqued or twisted by the force applied by the use of a cable guard. This twisting gets progressively worse as a bow is drawn because greater force shifts to the cables and away from the string. That's why a bow cannot be adjusted to eliminate cam lean through the whole draw cycle.

    What's more, it is more prevalent in shorter bows with larger cams. The bigger the cams are the more leverage imparted to the limbs. The shorter the bow the more acute the angle is fom the cam to the cable guard. Way back in "the good ole days" when bows were much longer (48" or more) cams had to be much smaller to achieve normal draw lengths. Smaller cams meant less leverage on the limb tips. Longer A2A bows meant less severe angle from the cam to the cable guard. That is why cam lean was never an issue. It was so slight we couldn't see it so we didn't worry about it. Out of sight--out of mind.

    One thing that "cam lean" can account for is premature serving wear and I've seen this with many bows, Martin included. A little more forethought needs to taken into account by the engineers who design the cams. Make cam grooves a little wider and smooth out the edges. Pearson, one company I once shot for from 2000 to 2004 did a very good job of this. The idler wheel was wider and had a nice, almost V shape to the string groove. Of course a wider wheel or cam means a little more weight on the limbs which means a touch less speed and God Forbid we should lose any speed in this day and age. People would rather replace serving or strings more often than give up 5 fps.

    Let's face it gentlmen. We don't live in a perfect world and compound bows are not perfect machines---at least not with the present technology. Besides, without something to complain about life would be very boring.
    Last edited by bfisher; 04-09-2013 at 07:21 PM.
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  7. #27
    Senior Member alienshooter's Avatar
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    Dang! bfisher kicking some knowledge!

  8. #28
    Senior Member Phantonza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joelc View Post
    Cam lean "started" several years ago on ArcheryTalk when some brainiac decided to look a the top cam of his Bowtech bow while shooting...then another guy did it....and they posted pictures...and so did his friend, and on, and on, and on. Was there ever an issue with these bows?...no...but because one guy posted this on AT it suddenly turned into an epidemic.
    I don't know which models those guys were talking about exactly, but I know for a fact that for example Bowtech Invasion CPX(L) is sensitive to the angle of the cams. They need to be slightly tilted towards the cable guard if you want good broadhead flight. Otherwise it won't happen, no matter how much you try to adjust your arrow rest sideways. Also Hoyt Carbon Element RKT and some others require yoke tuning to adjust the cam tilt.
    Last edited by Phantonza; 04-10-2013 at 06:27 AM.

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  9. #29
    Senior Member elkslayer4x5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joelc View Post
    lol. I don't know about schooled. Sadly though this whole discussion started from one thread on ArcheryTalk 6 or 7 years ago and every archer is now paying the price with misinformation and worry. In a perfect world everything would align and lean wouldn't exist...that's why we created the X system. I'd bore you guys with the reason we dont offer it any longer but maybe that's better suited for a phone call.
    I'm just glad that Martin did have the X system and especially on Nitrous cams.
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  10. #30
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    photo (2).JPGhere is a picture of the top cam, its not the greatest picture but you can see the lean if you look close, its worse up on draw, the angle is bad so this picture isnt a good example of the lean, but as promised i posted the pic. however the issue has been cleared up for me , im not worried about it at the moment. go check out pics of my new bow on the photo session thread

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