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Thread: Bow string Inspried by No longer impressed

  1. #11
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    Default How can this guy talk so much when he has nothing to say !?

    You've all hit on, or at least around, the basic theme of the other thread I started; us 'commoners' have no conception of all the intricacies involved in bow strings, let alone the rest of the rig. The 'commoner' - let's use 'hobbyist' - buys a golf club, he/she expects to have to tweak himself, just as in archery, but doesn't expect to, nor is capable of 'tweaking' the club. Bet those deep into the sport can and do. We hobbyist expect equipment we buy to work out of the box, including the strings; we expect the Cam and bearings to be 'right'. Oh sure, we have to learn the basics of tuning and such, but to know all Sonny and you others know about the finer points and how to work them, is just beyond us. It's a hobby, and few take their hobby to the depth you all do; we just can't, work and family, time constraints. Sure, any can and many, I'm sure, do reserve their own strings; I even reserved the end of a cable, but to diagnose and be able to cure something like Sonny talked about in the starting post; uneven cable ends, re stretching them and all, that just takes expertise beyond what the typical 'hobbyist' has or aspires to have. Take it to a bow shop, IF you have one handy; the hobbyist would look at the strings that just 'blew up' on him, consider the cost of having a set of strings he'd still be worried about re-done, and he'd buy a new set. The set Sonny re-built that 'still have lots of shots left in them'; they'd be gone and Hutch'd be smiling. lol Same with cams and other components; not only is diagnosing a problem beyond us, the cure certainly is. Now, know this; a 'hobbyist' can have a good basic understanding of his equipment; enough to keep it running right IF it's built right to start with, he can be a whale of a shot and have a PHD in deer behavior, he can have freezers full of game he's expertly butchered, cut and wrapped himself. Ol' Hobbyist can be more expert in other aspects of the sport. He may enjoy other aspects as well as you all enjoy the technical aspects. You'll 'learn' what you enjoy. Anyway, as capable as I am to diagnose the weird wear in my Cougar's strings and the cut thread in the cable is that it may have to do with a short bow and longish draw length. That's as far as my string expertise goes.


    As an afterthought; "At the shop I removed the serving of both cables and stretched the cables. The uneven cable evened out completely. Both were reserved with different serving material. All put back on the Shadowcat I lost about 5 fps, the different material robbing velocity, Still, 285 down to 280 fps was no big deal. The bow shoots great…"

    Are you sure those are Hammerhead strings or are they, perhaps, Sonny strings that have held up so well? Sounds like all you used was the original cable material, the building back correctly from there on up was all Sonny.

    Interesting, to me anyway, thread, btw; the old and new mix, I always find interesting. I have more time nowadays to delve deeper into my hobby, I just don't know if I have the capacity to learn much of what you all have to teach! lol..... o

    Just came to me that title might be taken wrong; I'm jokingly referring to me; the rambler on'er!
    Last edited by otisT; 07-31-2013 at 05:56 PM. Reason: correct 'tupid'

  2. #12
    Super Moderator bfisher's Avatar
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    You have brought up some very valid points Otis. There are many people who don't understand how compound bows work and don't want to learn. I would differ with you somewhat about time constraints, though. I'm a dedicated DIY person and don't believe in paying anybody for something I can do or learn to do myself. At first it was out of the need to save money. Later, as I gained experience with tools and confidence it became a challenge to accomplish something with my two hands and learn in the process. It's not just archery. It's almost everything in my life. For instance, at the age of 60 I put a new roof on my house (shingles). I'm not a carpenter, but I have a hammer and know how to drive a nail into wood. I had a choice of paying a contractor $4400 to do it or do it myself for less than $700. Sure, I thought I was going to die and it took me 6 days, but $3700 (what I saved) isn't too shabby for a week of work.

    I got off track about time constraints. When I was young I was paying for a house, raising two kids, shooting archery, mowing the lawn, home and auto repairs, and all the other things some men do. All this stuff after working an average of 63 hours a week and sometimes more. Still, I had time for my hobbies. Of course these were days long before the internet so no computer time and not much watching TV. I was always on the go. Lived on 4 to hours sleep for years as it was all I need. So what I'm saying is that it's not always a matter of having the time. It's just what we're doing during that slack time. People have different interests and I respect that. And as you put it nicely, that's why there are archery shops.

    You can differ with me if you like, and I would respect that too. This is just an explanation of how I lived my earlier years. Now that I'm 66 and retired I need about 6 1/2 hours sleep a day and not raising kids, etc, and don't have enough time in a day to do what I need to get done. LOL. Uh, maybe this laptop and the TV have something to do with it, LOL. Things change during one's life.

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  3. #13
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    Default Yeah, but....

    I hope we all had the thrill of 'having' to hustle at sometime in our early lives. I wish the younger generations could have the advantage of having the 'wolf' pounding on the door and they having to get out of it on their own. And, yes, DYI is fun; a hobby in and of itself. I used to like re-loading ammo, back in the single press days, better than I liked shooting it.

    "Still, I had time for my hobbies" <--- 'at dare is what I was talking about; the younger generation that is out there making America, most all are or should be bow hunters (smiles), do they want to take valuable time away from those hobbies. Would you, at that tender time in life, have felt the time better spent, rare and very limited free hobby time, shooting your bow or studying up on all the finer points of bow string idiosyncrasies? I don't know what caused my strings to age so quickly, but do know it'd take me probably ten years to become competent enough an expert to analyze everything and figure it out; I ain't got ten years!! lol

    I DO know what caused me to age so quickly; Wild Women, Wild Turkey and cigarettes !! Ahh well, actually.... Woman only allowed me to partake in the later two of those things, with extreme moderation on the Turk'.... lol

  4. #14
    Sonny Thomas
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    Default Bow string Inspried by No longer impressed

    Quote Originally Posted by otisT View Post
    Are you sure those are Hammerhead strings or are they, perhaps, Sonny strings that have held up so well? Sounds like all you used was the original cable material, the building back correctly from there on up was all Sonny.
    I guess the above is a question. Yes, they are Hammerhead strings, two tone black and green, on a 2011 Martin Shadowcat. Removing the servings of the cable allowed me to stretch and even out the cable. I did untwist a bit so to make evening out easier. Now, stretching is no big deal and you dont't need a stretcher and you don't need 100, 200 or 300 pounds of stretch. I have a nail drove in the end of the counter top. I slip one end loop over the nail and then use a matching nail (same size a cam cable post) and pull the cable tight. Pulled tight I then sort of angle the nail down into the wood counter top and use the nail as lever to stretch just as best I can. The uneven cable evened out. The correct twists were put in to give the correct length of the cable. I moved the cable around to use a bar as leverage to keep tension of the cable so I could serve. That's all I did.

    Now, Martin's serving was unknown and I just grabbed what we had at the shop, .021" BCY if I remember correctly. Someone said Hammerhead strings have .019 and of Halo type. Whatever the difference I lost a bit of speed. Again, no big deal.

    A spoon of serving material can go a long, long, (???) long, long ways and something of $15 or $16 a spool. So the center serving comes loose, separates and for pennys you can reserve it. Same with bows strings and cables. So the servings separate, big deal. Reserve them. Why shuck out $50 to $110 for a set of strings? If you mess up, big deal. Do it again. I do center servings for $8.00 and ends for $10.00.
    Now, you only need to reserve what ends that need it. So say the center serving and one end and $18.00and you're back on the road. No ordering or waiting on a new set of strings.

    Serving material and size can be known with a phone call.

    Serving a peep is a piece of cake and just about anything strong enough and not as thick as a clothes line will work. I carry a length of .020" of BCY in my carry bag and a spoon of "serving" taken from my wife's sewing cabinet. Price tag is marked 29 cents. Yep, good ole Button & Carpet thread. Comes in colors and for the same price, 29 cents I also use Button & Carpet thread for tying tied string nocks.
    Yep, I'm cheap But then normally I use .015" mini serving. I also have two spools 452X string material and it works great for serving in peeps. Dennis, on another site, said I should be good for about 5000 servings of peeps Oh, I don't and I won't build strings, so why I'm using up the 452X. Black matches a lot of strings and green goes well with the camo type strings.

    Now, Barry and I didn't learn all we know over night or within a year or two or three for that matter.

    All is simple if you just take your time. Bow timed correctly or single cam oriented properly and brace height and axle to axle is specs are ball park. Close, but still ball park. Axle to axle is more based on the bow's listed max draw weight. IE, axle to axle maybe 1/4" short or a 1/4" long, but if max listed draw weight is present you're good to go. Cam oriented properly or cams in time axle to axle set to give listed max draw weight there is no need to adjust brace height, it is what it is. Charts show specs, but charts don't give what the industry tolerance is for each spec. Told to me first hand, axle to axle can have a tolerance of +/- 3/8". I won't tell you that the individual was a Hoyt Customer Service Manager. How'd I find out? New strings and trying to get to ata specs had my bow heading for 80 pounds. Took a "bench man" to find out the correct ata. Bench men were going by floor specs and someone screwed up writing the spec charts.
    Of course, the +/- 3/16" tolerance is sure held a lot closer. And really amazing considering all the dimensions of everything, riser (length, angle), limb pockets, limbs.

    Tiller and tiller tuning. Forget it. Rarely as in rarely ever is tiller a concern. And with parallel bows tiller isn't the easiest thing to measure. Tiller tuning is for someone who knows what they are doing and wanting bow reaction to suit them.

    And if you've read some of my Posts, I R the black sheep of setting up a bow. Rule #1 - Don't drive yourself nuts with all the tuning procedures.... By some I throw my bows together. The only thing is my bows are accurate enough to get the job done and some just plain hate that

    Hey, guys. I made a correction. 3/16" not the 3/8" that I had. Went back and found Tom's email to me.
    Last edited by Sonny Thomas; 08-20-2013 at 08:18 AM.

  5. #15
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    My point was more that they could be considered 'Sonny Strings' because you did the building on the strings that held up. Yes, you started with Martin strings, Martin colors and all; THEN you stripped 'em down like a rusty Dodge and rebuilt them from the ground up. YOU, imo, built them; moot point though... lol

  6. #16
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    thanks for the info shared.
    2014 Alien Nitro , Sureloc Challenger + Viper Scope, Trophy Ridge Revolution, Easton Carbon One 500, Doinker Elite Supreme, Carter 2 Special.

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    I have a little bit different archery route. Had three children and son had great idea we all go to the archery club and shoot together. That was 20 years ago. I always wanted to shoot archery, kept hearing about a respected shooter's Martin Cougar Magnum that you had to wait to get one and was rifle like fast, not just a 40 yarder, great for the treeless plains we live in. Anyway, I never got the nerve to pull the trigger on the new wanted Martin, just settled for a "free" Bear whitetail that was 30 inch draw and 80 lbs. Shot it in our local "paper" target 3d and did okay. Still can't believe I scaled that bow back that much. Luckily I was into weight lifting but only weighed 165 lbs but my bodyfat was 6.3%. Anyhow, as the kids aged the girls (2) lost interest and Son wanted guns so we went that route and I dropped archery for 15 years. Like Barry, (good man!), I was burning the candle at both ends worked for YEARS only getting 8-12 hours off from work with no days off except for vacation. Being an Engineer by trade, I got into rifle benchrest shooting and did very well, designing my own cartridges and the like. Sometimes I had to "LIE-off" to get to go to matches, but it made me feel really guilty. Thought nothing of $4000 rifles, had 5 at one time. But ended up dropping archery and shooting to spend time with family for family things for ALL members. After last child finally was preparing to go to college, wife chose to divorce me, and on day of finding out sheriff came to door and walked with me to my bedroom to get clothing only. By the time the judge was done...I was below zero in finances, all savings gone, saddled with all the debt, my $1000 car needed a $3500 transmission. I once went for 2 weeks eating only 3 meals, because I was too stubborn to ask for help from family because I thought I would fight my way back. Anyhow, I never say anything negative about my children's mother to them and after 8 years since divorce, basically all my children think the world of me and only talk to their Mom occasionally. Since all guns magically disappeared after the sheriff escorted me outside, I felt I could not afford to replace my guns and gave it up. Adult son got me back into archery, and guess what? I enjoy it more than benchrest and my new wife and and son in law and daughter and my son and 2 grandchildren all shoot 3d. It is much more of a challenge, but I really enjoy the mechanical side of it. I get to help pre teens and teens and even more adults at our beautiful range, and to tune bows for people from all over the country. I have met the perfect woman for me, absolutely, and she loves me to no end and man is she something to look at and behold. I truly am blessed, and she chose to take up archery too. After reading about the Martin Nitrous cam here on AT, and from being an engineer, there is very little improvement that could be made to that design, so I am a fanboy. I have since recovered financially, have the best wife, children (they ALL make more than I do!) but still love me, and now have the sweetest grandchildren ever. My 11 year old granddaughter was shooter of the year for our local club, and my eyes welled up with tears when after receiving the award at the banquet she came to me and said "Grandpa, I have my first ever tears of JOY! All because of you!" There is no better sport for families, and I am building my granddaughter a Martin Tigress right now as we speak. Some of the parts I got from Barry, and he almost gave them to me since he knew they were for my granddaughter. Hutch helped design the perfect strings, And Hutchett did her typical perfect job on them. All I can say is there is no better forum than this one, and I am meeting new very kind people everyday on here.
    Last edited by mxtuner1; 03-02-2014 at 11:55 AM.
    Addicted to Slayers or Slayr's, have more than one. Probably enjoy the mechanical side of archery the best. I have really enjoyed the articles and the stories on this site. I strive to help others with what little knowledge I have.

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  9. #18
    Super Moderator bfisher's Avatar
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    Mark, all I can say is-----WOW. Thanks for sharing. I mean that from the heart.
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    Jim
    Addicted to Slayers or Slayr's, have more than one. Probably enjoy the mechanical side of archery the best. I have really enjoyed the articles and the stories on this site. I strive to help others with what little knowledge I have.

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    mixtuner1, gotta admit that's one big hill to climb. Beat down and struggled on up to the top. Awesome.... All the best to you....
    Former and current Back Yard Champion. I beat myself

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