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Thread: Question about the martin brand.....

  1. #21
    Sonny Thomas
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    Default Question about the martin brand.....

    I don't believe anyone wants to see Martin go down the drain. Martin has had a hard road to travel beginning the last with 2009 and things just never go better and if not bad enough the 2011 line of bows and now back on track...sort of. Said are buyers present, just time is needed I guess.

    Me, half the bows would be removed. That proven to sell would keep some and two bows to cover 3D and paper target. One complaint I've had is draw length. This needs corrected to AMO, period. It'd be a plus to have bow that when set to 26 inches it'd be 26" AMO. Another complaint is a top of the line bow that would fit short draw people. I could have sold a bunch of Shadowcats if them long draw suckers would have gone to 23 inches. If I understand correctly the Scepter V is the same way, too long a draw length for those who would like one.

  2. #22
    Member dzsmith2's Avatar
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    Once again, there are plenty of other bows that don't cost 1000 bucks. My obsession didn't cost 1000 bucks . Mission doesn't even make a bow that cost 1000 bucks, bear makes plenty of bows under 1000 bucks. All you have to do is look.....
    IM BACK!!!!

  3. #23
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    All of you are making great points and a lot of sense, but the question I had was "why a company that was poised to be THE pre-eminent archery company slid so far as to, essentially, be nothing but the dog at the bottom that keeps getting kicked around. Once again, looking at the bows after a long absence from archery and they don't look less well made than those at the top of their game.....maybe some QC issues on sloppy build, but the basics are there. Did they tire of the race and the effort it takes to be at the top or did they determine that they didn't want to go for the "Creme de la Creme" place in the world of bows? One other possibility.....did the limb failures completely un-do them.....I know that prior to purchasing a couple of Martins, I had never known a limb failure on my own bows. Not so any longer. Anyway....just some basic questions. Mr. Sonny Thomas, you certainly are in a position to know more about this than most and I really appreciate your input. I run a division for my company and I'm truly interested in just what such a sterling company did to land them where they are now. Not even respected on their own sites, like Archery Talk. Simply so amazing that it leaves you slack-jawed.

  4. #24
    Sonny Thomas
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    Default Question about the martin brand.....

    I don't believe disrespect, but the want of better quality limbs, paint jobs and touches on things that the common archer or even shop employee shouldn't have to do.
    I didn't place and win all that I did with a piece of junk and I never saw anyone praise their Martin bow as I did the ones I shot and owned. So assured of my last two Shadowcats I took up the challenge of shooting 20 indoor targets with my eyes closed - witnessed, not me blowing off at the mouth. Terry Postin; "Why do you even needs sights?" Well, I do need sights. Just line up, close eyes, have someone watch to make sure it's not some long blink and let 'er rip and not open eyes until after the arrow hits. Bull's eyes and Xs. Bows have to hold and hold well to do this - Yes, bow fit is paramount, but I never tried it this with any bow before the Shadowcats and haven't since with any other bow.

  5. #25
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    SONNY you might know the answer to this question. What are the numbers of Martin's limb failures or replacements compared to other bow companies? Now I understand this number could be skewed or misunderstood because of regional sales and such or what a shop carries. Also more archers might be shooting Hoyt, Mathews or Bowtech over Martin but this might be beneficial to know. Furthermore, I do not understand why Martin is having "so many limb failures." They switched to Gordons Glass and I thought a majority of companies use Gordons Glass to produce their limbs. Maybe I am mistaken, but any insight and opinions would be interesting to read. How have the split limbs been? Has anyone heard of any failures with these new limbs? I am interested to hear information on this as well.
    2012 Rytera Nemesis - Sword Twilight Hunter Sight - QAD HD Bone Collector Drop Away - WindJammer 7" Stabilizer - 438 Grain Beman ICS Hunter Elites - G5 T3's & QAD Exodus Swept Back Version

  6. #26
    Sonny Thomas
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    Default Question about the martin brand.....

    Sorry, can't help you. I know some due to working on Martins, but covered much are other sites with Martins limb failures. The Power Tough limbs are a improvement for sure. I have personally heard word of only one failure and I believe some one in here just noted a limb failure of the Power Toughs. I really believe the quad limbs are another step in the right directions - basically, 4 limbs flexing instead of 2 of full width.

    Barry and I have much discussed limb failures. Shorter atas is more of what we think is/was the cause with a guide rod giving much degree of angle. Okay, something like this. Short ata giving more severe cable angle and limbs twist all the more. This has to stress limbs more so than on longer ata bows. It's much the same difference with longer ata bows and less lack of concern of cam lean. Okay, the cable angle to guide rod isn't as severe.
    If you'll note several makers of spring type guide rods and adjustable guide rods are on the market. They aren't to improve cam lean, but more keep cam lean the same from bow at rest to bow fully drawn. If you were to have a offset guide rod (which I believe in) you would adjust it so that you have just adquate clearance of the vanes to the cables. This would give the least angle of the cables, less cam lean and less stress on the limbs.
    I noted here or another site that I have sold every offset guide rod in the shop. Yes, I robbed every ancient bow in the back room. Not one customer that knew what he was looking for balked at paying $20 for a old aluminum guide rod. One customer paid $40 for a stainless steel offset guide rod and paid shipping to Florida.
    Now, these aluminum guide rods not only were offset, but gave under load. Draw bow, guide sliding back, rod flexed and when the bow was fired the guide rod flexed back out of the way. Depending on the arrow diameter and size of vanes you could almost have the guide flexing enough the cable would touch the shaft and still function as it should, flex to give the vanes clearance.

    New offset guide rods are being manufactured right now for specific bows and at a price I consider a bit extreme and then not really. And of course the anti-troque rods sell for as much as $75 and $80. You'd have to Search AT for these anti-torque rods. I don't feel I need them as my bows are quite long for ata, 37 1/2, 38, 38 1/2 and 41 1/4".

  7. #27
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    Great information Sonny. Will not go unused with me. That is for sure.
    2012 Rytera Nemesis - Sword Twilight Hunter Sight - QAD HD Bone Collector Drop Away - WindJammer 7" Stabilizer - 438 Grain Beman ICS Hunter Elites - G5 T3's & QAD Exodus Swept Back Version

  8. #28
    Senior Member wscywabbit's Avatar
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    One other thing I had noticed with the limb failures, specifically with people I shoot with, as well as posters in the forums, is that it seemed that the shorter ATA combined with a longer draw length was deadly to limbs. Especially those powered by the CAT cams and the Nitro 2 cams prior to Powertuff limbs.

    Now I did just have a cracked limb on my 2011 Onza, and I have a short draw. The bow has never been dry fired. The only thing I could think of is that I have fired thousands of shots through it, and I pull HARD into the backwall, with the drawstop pullingon the bottome limb. It was the bottome limb that cracked, at the fork for the cam; the one the draw stop pulls against. Is that the reason for the failure? I don't know. I did notice that the 2013 limbs given as a replacement are slightly thicker than the ones replaced...

    As for the why of Martin falling out of favor with the masses, I'd have to say its been a combination of things; some QC issues, some equipment failures, slightly lower grade fit and finish than some other brands, and lack of agressive marketing. All of which has been touched on in this thread.
    In God and guns we trust;
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    2011 Onza 3: 70#, 28.25 draw (AMO), 384 gr arrow, 288 fps
    2005 Saber: 70#, same arrow, 250 fps

  9. #29
    Senior Member WildWilt15's Avatar
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    I hate to say but the powertough limbs being an improvement is not true i personally went through 2 sets with my onza, the old man went through a set and he doesnt shoot very often at all, a few people on here have gone through sets, a guy i shoot with at my local club went through 2 sets already and the amount of failures on archerytalk is outstanding ive had no problems with my split limbs or my bengal yet but if the bengals goes i will switch to barnsdale.
    Martin x-200 unsure of year
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  10. #30
    Senior Member typically8's Avatar
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    Okay, here are my thoughts
    a) I have 3 Martins a 2009, 2012, and 2013 w/ no limb failures yet. I shoot almost every day
    b) I bought a Martin for the price and liked it.
    c) Some of y'all know I read alot about archery and hunting. Books and magazines. The key to marketing is repetition. I have
    to see Martin advirtise in a mag. The current Deer & Deer Hunting issue is ''sponsered'' by Mathews. Every page has a
    logo.
    thats what I know.
    2013 PANTERA w/ cloaked cams, PINK Meta peep, PINK/BROWN BSD strings, PINK/BROWN BowJax, Truglo Range Rover Pendulum Site, Shockwave Stabilizer
    2012 Onza III w/cloaked cams, Meta peep, Truglo Micro Brite, Shockwave Stabilizer
    2010 G5 Quest Primal
    True-Fire Hardcore and Winn Free Flight releases
    Maxima's tipped w/ RAGE broadheads (some w/ PINK fletching)

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