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Thread: Aiming from a stand: High or Low?

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    Default Aiming from a stand: High or Low?

    A question I know I have read before but I forgot. From a treestand do you aim a little high, or a little low?
    Bluesman

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    When you shoot uphill or downhill - your arrow will hit high of where you hold your pin.

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    Bit more in depth. A 25 yard down hill or up hill shot is not 25 yards as per ground level gravity. Normally, unless really steep, you subtract at least 10%. The shot is actually 22.5 yards. BUT! There is 3D and the real deal, deer. For 3D you would then aim dead on for 22.5 yards and center punch the 10 ring. So, on a up hill deer you'd aim low so to crisscross the lungs and on down hill deer you'd aim high.
    Lavender lines being for 3D and red ovals beings the lungs and blue lines depicting arrows for real deer.
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    Senior Member wscywabbit's Avatar
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    Thanks Sonny that's a great point. I haven't done 3d competition and had not thought about changing shot placement for competition. I use the 3d ranges around here to prep for hunting season, and always shoot like I'm going for a kill shot in the real world. I keep saying I'm gonna get envolved with the 3d shoots, but life is hectic LOL. This is good food for thought for when I do though!
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    Don't know if it's still available or not, but McKenzie use make a off centered kill zone 3D target. I believe it was for a tree stand shot and quartering away. Okay, the 10 ring was like in the upper back section of what would be the lung of a normal 3D target. They were offered at a fairly inexpensive price, mainly because they didn't sell well. 3D shooters didn't like them. And a lot of clubs didn't have a walk up platform or down hill shot. Also, go to a national event and you rarely see steep shots. Imagine a 1000 shooters climb the stairs of a platform shot or groups of shooters climbing up or down a hill. Yeah, liability comes into play.
    Got pic of our platform shot. Not overly high, but say your feet our right at 8 feet off the ground, making your bow/arrow another say 2 1/2" feet. So 10 to 11 feet up. We usually offer 2 to 3 shots from our 3 walk up platforms.
    Note the 30 point Rinehart buck out front. Ideally, the best deer kill shot would be the upper part of the 10 ring....
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    Last edited by Sonny Thomas; 01-18-2014 at 10:21 AM.
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    Senior Member Mike G's Avatar
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    I hear this discussion talked about a lot.

    Let's say just for discussion that the "target", (deer or whatever), is 20 yards away on a flat surface. You are standing on the same surface shooting and you have a 20 yard pin. You aim right on and hit the exact spot you aim. (this is just for example)

    Now you climb a tree. We'll say you go 20 feet up. The "target" is the same distance away as it was, 20 yards, (60 feet). Now using math to find out how far the "target" actually is: 20squared +60squared=the square root of 4000 which is 63.245, 21yards and a couple inches.

    Now I have had a lot of people tell me that they have to shoot a little low because they will hit high. There are two things that could be happening here:
    #1. Their bow sight is not mounted square to their bow. The 3rd axis.
    #2. They are dropping their bow arm instead of bending at the waist.

    The one big thing that most likely is happening is that the distance was misjudged and is actually closer than they thought.

    For this instance I would just shoot right on in a real hunting situation where I did not have time to use a range finder, (which at close ranges I rarely have the luxury of using). Often times I will use a range finder when I first setup to check out different distances on a new stand. I will range on trees and logs, rocks or stumps around my tree stand. I use a tree climber but most often I use the same select trees in different areas that I hunt. I get to know the different ranges but I can seldom get a deer to stand exactly 20 yards away. I also practice out of my tree climber during the off season. I will climb a tree and have a friend or even sometimes my wife, move my 3D deer target around. They can place the "target" anywhere they want at any angle they want and it is up to me to make a killing shot. NOT a 10ring shot, but an actual killing shot. If I decide that the shot they have set up for me is not an "ethical" shot I will still take the best shot that I can, if nothing else it proves to me that it is not the shot I want to take. I have a shot simulator on my computer and on my cell phone so that I can see the actual projection of the arrow through the deer and whether it hits bone or vital internal organs and arteries.

    This is the best practice I think a person can do, besides the one shot practice every day. If nothing else, just take one shot every day. Even if it's only at 5 yards. Practice form and release.

    Mike

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    Default Aiming from a stand: High or Low?

    First, if you noted I said ground level gravity. A target 20 yards out and you up 20 feet is still 20 yards ground level gravity, but due to the angle you would aim a just a tad high to crisscross the lungs. But as you said yard judgement is paramount and this is regardless of intended target.

    I'd have to remove the 3rd axis thought because 20 yards isn't that long. And then people are effected by Mommy Nature. Oh yes, people tend to square up, align and center just through our regular human nature.

    Most hunters use at least 3 pins. Said to do is center the pins within the peep and use the pin needed for the distance. Okay, top and bottom pin equal to the top and bottom of the peep, top pin for, say 20 yards. Same thing, top and bottom pin equal to the top and bottom of peep, middle pin for, say 30 yards. And the same for the bottom pin, it stays equal to the bottom of the peep as the top pin does the top of the peep, but used for, say 40 yards.

    Most all people come real darned close to have their pins straight up and down just because we are human, the Mommy Nature in us. I ain't perfect, but for 20 yards and even 30 yards the bubble means little....The real problem with fixed sights is there is no adjustment for 2nd or 3rd axis. I leveled the sight on my hunting bow and have about .030" on the bottom edge of the mounting plate.

    All as it should be, yardage correct, sight just so, the real aim point is the core center of the deer. Most generally people think of only broad side, but the same core center exists for quartering deer. I submitted a drawing, but think of the deer's "boiler room" as a soccer ball and you want to aim for what would be the center of the soccer ball as you look at it.
    Say a severe quartering away shot and you'd aim behind the deer's last rib of it's rib cage. There is no real side to a soccer ball as it faces you regardless of how you look at. Front, back, side, down, up and you still see a ball. You aim for the center of the soccer ball...

    All say that a quartering shot is best over a quartering to shot. This is because of the shoulder. Except possibly on a young deer the shoulder is one tough sucker to get through. Still, the soccer ball shot is still in effect, but between the two shoulders. Deer facing to your left you aim just inside it's left shoulder. Deer facing to your right you aim just inside it's right shoulder.
    The soccer ball, the kill shot, sets farther back when faced with a quartering to you shot. So take it into consideration. I've taken 4 frontal shots and all were kill shots. To start, what you have is clipping possibily both lungs and if enough horsepower, plow through the liver, a deadly combination. 2 of the 4 shots sunk fletch deep, so figure 24 inches of penetration. The other 2 arrows went completely in - Field dressing took a little caution.
    The same frontal shot from up a tree, you'd aim inside the shoulder and just a bit up. This will get you back enough for the center of the soccer ball. The lungs would be hit and just maybe clip the liver, maybe.

    Straight down poses a problem, the back bone. Most bows will pretty much break the back bone, but maybe not get to the lungs or through the lungs. More than likely a follow up shot will be needed. If the main artery is hit, then death follows, but a lingerly death. If the back bone is not hit chances are only one lung maybe be hit.

    The one lung hit or just liver hit is a judgemental thing for following up. If you wait, the deer will lay down and it'll get "sick" and expire, but how much time is needed is questionable. Friend of mine shot a nice buck and only got the liver. Afraid he'd lose it he decided to push, run it out of blood. I figured he moved that deer some 7 miles.. Had he waited the deer may have laid down within 200 yards...or less.

    Most devasting kill shot I ever saw, until this year, was that of a friend of my cousin and allowed to deer hunt. Ray shot the 10 point buck right through the heart. At the edge of a corn, hit, the buck was faced with going back where he was shot or blasting across a open 40 acre corn field. The buck chose the corn field. The buck made it to the last 8 rows of corn still left to pick, turned around and looked back to where the "boogie man" was and watched until he ran out of blood. Heart shot clear through, perfect Fred Bear two edge, bleeder blade X through the center of the heart and near a 300 yard run and a couple of minutes before he dropped.

    My buck this year. Double lung shot. That he had running mate and tried to stay with the other buck, he went right at 175 yards before he dropped. Where ever the picture is in here, the side up is the side up when I found him. Part of his lung was hanging out of the hole.

    Look at where arrow came out. Virtually perfect, missing the shoulder to exit.
    http://martinarchery.com/mtechforum/...l=1#post107111

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    Last edited by Sonny Thomas; 01-19-2014 at 01:41 PM.
    Former and current Back Yard Champion. I beat myself

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