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Thread: New Forum Member - Needs Advice, Bow Shopping

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    Default New Forum Member - Needs Advice, Bow Shopping

    Hello,

    I'm a new member here (and have the same username on AT) just looking for some advice on 2014 Martin Bows. I've owned a few in the past and with the recent comeback in the company, I may be looking to getting another in the future.

    Also, sorry for the ridiculously long post. And thanks for taking the time to read it, those that do.

    A little about myself - I shot archery as a teenager (11-15 y/o), mostly backyard champion and some small 3D tournaments, and got out of the game for a while. Got back into hunting the last few years and in Arizona, archery is huge, particularly because of how the hunting system works with lottery tags and such. I still do some 3D tournaments, backyard champion, and a little indoor 3 and 5 spot. I've owned bows from various companies and always welcome innovation to try, if it works for me. I'm not brand loyal.

    I've had various compounds, (in this order too) an unknown '90s PSE target bow, ('94?) PSE Spirit, ('97?) Darton Excel, '08 Martin MOAB, '10 Darton 3500 Pro, '07 Martin Slayer NOS-X, '13 PSE DNA, '13 PSE Phenom, and '10 Bowtech Destroyer 350. I've shot some others that I enjoyed... Hoyts, Mathews, etc. but never officially owned.

    My dilemma: I can never find the "perfect" bow. There's always something significantly wrong about one that bugs me to the point of selling it. Please help me.

    So I'm going to break this down, list wise, the pros and cons (for how they fit me) of my recent bows, and maybe someone can help me find what I'm looking for. I want something that does everything... I hunt spot-and-stalk in southern Arizona, which involves a lot of hiking in mountains, glassing up deer w/binos, and moving in for the kill. I use a back quiver (Bowmate Elite) because I don't like a lot of weight on my bow.

    '08 Martin MOAB (going off memory here)
    I sold this bow because I moved... regretted it later
    Pros:
    very smooth draw cycle
    good overall mass weight
    very solid wall (single limb stop)
    decent grip
    low vibes... nice VEM stuff on the shelf, riser modules
    fairly quiet
    fairly generous valley w/o sacrificing too much speed

    Cons:
    I can really only remember one: cheap finish


    '10 Darton 3500 Pro (going off memory here)
    I sold this bow because it did not particularly fit me
    Pros:
    pretty fast
    good grip
    wallet friendly
    not real difficult to tune
    solid wall
    accurate for a 33 5/8" ATA IMO

    Cons:
    finish was mediocre
    a little loud on the shot
    moderately short valley
    a little on the heavy side but not overkill


    '07 Martin Slayer w/NOS-X
    Mainly sold this bow because I couldn't get used to the grip
    Pros:
    EXTREMELY accurate
    VERY easy to tune (no bow press needed on X system)
    decent finish

    Cons:
    poor grip - too wide
    very loud, ideal for competition, not hunting
    a little on the heavy side but not overkill


    '13 PSE DNA
    70# was too much, I hurt my shoulder and was forced to sell the bow
    Pros:
    crazy stupid fast
    excellent grip
    decent draw cycle
    fairly solid wall (w/Bomar stops)
    VERY light mass weight
    outstanding finish... I love the anodized PSE risers
    low vibes

    Cons:
    hurt my wallet
    VERY short valley
    somewhat difficult to tune
    accuracy was below average, I could not float the pins well, even with good stabs
    draw length modules constantly come loose - yes, I used blue Loctite, still had me worried


    '13 PSE Phenom
    I still own this bow, and is usually my go-to bow
    Pros:
    absolute sleeper, money saver
    VERY accurate as well, maybe more so than I was with the Slayer
    target quality bow but still can take it hunting
    again, anodized riser finish = winning
    still fast for a long ATA bow (329 IBO)
    smooth draw cycle
    fairly solid wall (w/Bomar stops)
    again, love the PSE grips
    low vibes

    Cons:
    short valley, not as bad as DNA though
    a little on the hefty side when fully equipped
    somewhat difficult to tune
    draw length modules constantly come loose - yes, I use blue Loctite, still has me worried


    '10 Bowtech Destroyer 350
    I bought this as a project bow, something different to try, and yes I knew what I was getting into before hand
    Pros:
    ODB cams are very articulate and can be fine tuned for us OCD folk
    crazy stupid fast
    fairly solid wall, no complaints there
    InVelvet finish is nice
    low vibes
    mass weight is tolerable, a little heavy but not Phenom/Slayer heavy

    Cons:
    no warranty - bought it used
    again with disliking the grip - factory grip too thick, removed it, riser is too thin
    suffers from the infamous flaking limbs (I may refinish these myself w/Duracoat later)
    draw cycle is harsh but tolerable at 60#
    moderate valley... has a huge hump before so feels odd
    replacement parts from Bowtech no longer available


    So to sum it up, this is what I'm particularly interested in and :
    Minimum 33" ATA, max 38", smooth draw cycle (no huge humps like the Bowtech), under 4# mass weight, 60# draw weight peak (MAYBE 65# on a smooth draw cycle), fits my 26.5" - 27" DL, easy to FINE tune, has a grip angle/width similar to PSEs, accurate, low vibrations, won't destroy my wallet ($700-800 is about my overall peak on a bare bow), and with my short draw can reach around 260-270 fps with moderate weight arrows (350gr arrows for a 60# bow).

    One thing I do NOT care about is factory strings... sorry, I have yet to see anything worthy in this category and have always replaced with a custom set. But hey, surprise me if you can! Right now my favorite blend is Brownell Rhino cables/Fury string. Not picky on colors... I like black bows and don't mind the blacked-out look on EVERYTHING.

    The two bows from Martin I am particularly interested in at the moment are the Nemesis Nitro and the Lithium. I really like the bridged riser design... I just wonder if I should wait for the 2015 line-up.

    Am I being picky? Sorry. I do have a little OCD but I love to tinker with things and archery is more of a hobby for me.

    Well anyways, thanks in advance for any advice. Hope to learn from this board as much as I've learned from AT.

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    Senior Member TEN RING's Avatar
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    welcome to the forum, I haven't shot any of "14" yet but I have own some of the same bows you have
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    Super Moderator FishingandHuntingUSA's Avatar
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    Well howdy and welcome to the forum.

    I have all of them in stock and have shot them all, I must say I have no issues with any of them.
    If you plan on shooting 3D and hunting with the same bow then the 2 you are looking at fit the bill.

    Nemesis Retail 899.00
    Decades of bowhunting passion and innovation culminated in this radically lightweight bridged riser design.

    IBO Rating up to 330 FPS
    Let-off 80%
    Peak draw weight(s) 50/60/70 lbs
    Draw length 25.5" - 30.5"
    Brace height 7"
    Axle to axle 35"
    Weight 3.8 lbs

    The Nemesis Nitro is 35” axle-to-axle with a very forgiving 7” brace height. At only 3.8 lbs the Nemesis delivers a lethal combination of speed, accuracy, dependability, and deadly silence. Camo Carbon Red White

    The Nemesis Nitro is engineered for ideal results in any condition. Whether you are shooting 3-D or wanting to own your hunt, this bow is for all die hard bowhunters who prefer a longer axle-to-axle bow!

    Lithium Retail 699.00
    The Lithium's all new one piece CNC-machined bridge riser is the perfect foundation for the X4 Twin Limbs.

    IBO Rating up to 335 FPS
    Let-off 80%
    Peak draw weight(s) 50 60 70 lbs
    Draw length 26.0" - 31.0"
    Brace height 7"
    Axle to axle 33.35"
    Weight 4 lbs

    The new Lithium with its bridged riser and 33.25” axle-to-axle will shoot up to 335 fps. Camo Carbon Red White

    The solid one piece bridged riser is equipped with Martin’s patented Vibration Escape system delivering a silent and shock free shot at 335 feet per second. This perfect blend of smoothness, speed and stability make the Lithium the perfect all-round hunting and 3D bow.

    Harnessed with the fully adjustable Nitro 3 cams, the X4 Twin Limbs and the Carbon STS, the Lithium will be taking home all the trophies from the range and the woods

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    Senior Member hawkdriver55's Avatar
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    look at the Nemesis 35. I was blown away by it.

    I own a Rytera Alien XT which is close to the lithium. (and I love it)

    My advice is to get your hands on them and get a feel for what fits you best.
    Last edited by hawkdriver55; 05-07-2014 at 07:33 AM.
    Bought a Martin, Then my wife gave me a Rytera so.......I joined the forum.
    Then won the Elite on Archery Talk.
    I am blessed.

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    Senior Member elkslayer4x5's Avatar
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    Welcome to the site. I hunt with a 2006 Slayer Nitrous X system, and have no problem with noise now that I've gone back to standard width axles. For a while I had a wide axle on the bottom limb, since it is connected to the top cam, the cable was too close to allow the use of Blazer vanes, but with the cables seperated, the bow was loud, lots of twang, had to use 2 cable silencers per cable and 2 string silencers, 10 in all to quiet it down, all because the cables were no longer touching. As far as the grip being too wide, remove the wooden side plates.
    http://eastoutfitter.tripod.com/index.html
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    Martin 06 Slayer, Nitrous C, shoot thru, 63lb, Quiktune 3000, HAA OL 5519, Beman ICS Hunter
    Martin 06 Slayer, Nitrous C, Shoot thru, 55lb, Quiktune 3000, HHA OL 5519 2X, Easton A/C/C
    Ben Pearson 1968 'Cougar' 62" 45#s @ 28" recurve, parallel shaft POC, Zwickey 'Eskimo' 2 blade

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    Quote Originally Posted by elkslayer4x5 View Post
    Welcome to the site. I hunt with a 2006 Slayer Nitrous X system, and have no problem with noise now that I've gone back to standard width axles. For a while I had a wide axle on the bottom limb, since it is connected to the top cam, the cable was too close to allow the use of Blazer vanes, but with the cables seperated, the bow was loud, lots of twang, had to use 2 cable silencers per cable and 2 string silencers, 10 in all to quiet it down, all because the cables were no longer touching. As far as the grip being too wide, remove the wooden side plates.
    I had wide axles on both top and bottom... they were combo so I could put the cables in the narrow setting. But the cables were rubbing... I had custom strings from 60X built out of 8190 since it frays less. I think my noise problem was attributed to the lack of cable and string silencers, cable being more important of the two since I had a string stop installed.

    Nonetheless, I still could not get used to the fat grip on it. I am contemplating picking up some Nitrous-X B Cams and building a Frankenbow with my PSE Phenom riser so I can get the best of both from the two target rigs I've owned.

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    Welcome and others have made some solid recomendations, but I'll jump in also
    I sold an Ecylpse last week and I was impressed, alittle shorter for optimal 3D/spots shooting but works fine and then I shoot the 14 Nemesis and love it. I also have an over 30" DL so i prefer the longer axle to axle of the Nemesis.
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    Senior Member wscywabbit's Avatar
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    Welcome to the forum. I'd say the best advice is to try them both out. Is your 26-27" drawlength given as true length or AMO? I ask because the draw lengths in the Martin specs are AMO. My draw is 26.5" true / 28.25" AMO, and that is at the lower end of the scale for the Nitro 3L cams for both bows. Conceivably you could go with either the 3S or the 3L just know that the cut off for the 3L is 28" on the Nemesis and 27.5" on the Lithium. What that means is that in order to get your draw set up correctly with the larger cam, and not over-rotate the cams you will end up with a short valley and maybe a higher hold weight than 80%, like around 75-78%. (I think I'm at 77 or 78% right now, if I remember right.)

    That being said, I have a 2011 Onza, and I love the bow. I have thought about getting the new Lithium, which is basically the same bow with a riser upgrade and quad limbs. I have also shot the Nemesis 35 (Nitro) and it is very sweet. Between the two, I would probably lean more towards the Lithium, but that's just me. The fit and finish on the new bows are outstanding compared to my 2011, which wasn't bad to begin with. In short I don't think you'd be disappointed either way.
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    2011 Onza 3: 70#, 28.25 draw (AMO), 384 gr arrow, 288 fps
    2005 Saber: 70#, same arrow, 250 fps

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    Quote Originally Posted by wscywabbit View Post
    Welcome to the forum. I'd say the best advice is to try them both out. Is your 26-27" drawlength given as true length or AMO? I ask because the draw lengths in the Martin specs are AMO. My draw is 26.5" true / 28.25" AMO, and that is at the lower end of the scale for the Nitro 3L cams for both bows. Conceivably you could go with either the 3S or the 3L just know that the cut off for the 3L is 28" on the Nemesis and 27.5" on the Lithium. What that means is that in order to get your draw set up correctly with the larger cam, and not over-rotate the cams you will end up with a short valley and maybe a higher hold weight than 80%, like around 75-78%. (I think I'm at 77 or 78% right now, if I remember right.)

    That being said, I have a 2011 Onza, and I love the bow. I have thought about getting the new Lithium, which is basically the same bow with a riser upgrade and quad limbs. I have also shot the Nemesis 35 (Nitro) and it is very sweet. Between the two, I would probably lean more towards the Lithium, but that's just me. The fit and finish on the new bows are outstanding compared to my 2011, which wasn't bad to begin with. In short I don't think you'd be disappointed either way.
    Thanks.

    I'm definitely 26.5" AMO. I never measure "true" draw length because so few use it. I can stretch it to about 26.75" but bows start to creep on me in that range without massively adjusting my anchor. 27" has always been just a touch too long for me.

    What's the big riser upgrade? Just more machined look? More refined edges?

    Are both the Nemesis Nitro and Lithium single-piece risers? I know the Lithium is advertised as one on the Martin website.

    I think the biggest hurdle I face is finding a local dealer. I am about an hour and a half south of Tucson, and while there is one Martin dealer in Tucson, the only bow I've seen on his shelf is the Blade. Kinda disappointing. But it's been a while since I've been there so I may go talk with him soon.

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