Mr. Bfisher:

[flytier17]

What bow have you decided to get in what cam/limb/colour configuration? I've been wondering which one you decided on. Have you yet?

Alec

[bfisher]

Yes, Alec. The order is in. Just a plain old MOAB with Black riser, camo limbs, and Thermal Elite grip.

Of course I may have to call Joel later and change it. I made the mistake of seeing the Rytera Alien X.

Frankly, I'm not crazy about eh Martin lineup this year. IMO too many of the bows are so similar. Example: Bengal, MOAB, AlienX, all have about a
32" ATA. And draw length aren't exactly adaptable for my 26.5-27" draw.

I know the Wathog would make it pretty close, but I don't want to shoot a bow at the bottom of it's draw length range. If Martin had the option of a mini-mod for the Cat Cam I might consider it. I figure the M2Pro would let me shoot a bit more weight. Besides, I'll probably end up swapping the Limbs and cams from my FireCat to the MOAB riser and essntially making the FireCat a MOAB (all camo) and use it for hunting. All remains to be seen.

Then again, I might end up putting B NitrousX setup on the MOAB limbs and see how that suits me. Possiblities are almost endless.

[bfisher]

Hey Alec, I almost forgot. Have you seen the pics of the AlienX? I'm just going to have to have a set of those grips later on----and strings to match. Bucknasty, here I come---when I get the grips.

[flytier17]

Yeah, I'm not overly big on the Cahanges martin made. I think the new Camo sucks for one. Even worse than the realtree. Whatever was wrong with mossy oak? I know its a cosmetic thing, not functionality, but it is nice when the bow is aesthetically appealing though. On that line, the target colours also suck. The amazing black platinum is replaced with a plain gloss black.

Still no new Dual-Cam that would replace the Nitrous specs wise.

The Slayer was such a great bow; even with the CAT cams. I realise that the lighter weight of the Warthog is a bit more appealing to the masses though, I won't contest Martins decision there.

I think they need a new target bow on the scene. Also, a new target bow with parallell limbs (though I personally wouldn't go fo it). Also, a speed bow without the radical deflex of the warthog and Firecat. Say 38-40", not very reflexed, parallell limbs or close to it, a 6.5"-7" BH with the 13" limbs, and CAT cams. For a 3-D bow of course.

Anyways, congratulations on your new MOAB. Have fun with it.

I did see the Alien X. Impressive riser; rivals the Slayer Aesthetically IMO. We'll see how it shoots. To short though.

You need a set of Bob Lambeth grips cut like the aliens, and strings to match the colours of the grip.

Alec

[scepterman30x]

Yeah, I'm not overly big on the Cahanges martin made. I think the new Camo sucks for one. Even worse than the realtree. Whatever was wrong with mossy oak? I know its a cosmetic thing, not functionality, but it is nice when the bow is aesthetically appealing though. On that line, the target colours also suck. The amazing black platinum is replaced with a plain gloss black.

Still no new Dual-Cam that would replace the Nitrous specs wise.

The Slayer was such a great bow; even with the CAT cams. I realise that the lighter weight of the Warthog is a bit more appealing to the masses though, I won't contest Martins decision there.

I think they need a new target bow on the scene. Also, a new target bow with parallell limbs (though I personally wouldn't go fo it). Also, a speed bow without the radical deflex of the warthog and Firecat. Say 38-40", not very reflexed, parallell limbs or close to it, a 6.5"-7" BH with the 13" limbs, and CAT cams. For a 3-D bow of course.

Anyways, congratulations on your new MOAB. Have fun with it.

I did see the Alien X. Impressive riser; rivals the Slayer Aesthetically IMO. We'll see how it shoots. To short though.

You need a set of Bob Lambeth grips cut like the aliens, and strings to match the colours of the grip.

Alec

Easy on the new target bow comment there Flytier. Remember Martin did away with the Scepter there for about two yrs. The most depressing yrs of my life...don't want to experience that again.

[flytier17]

I was not saying to get rid of the scepter. That I would never want. I was thinking of adding another target bow on the lineup. Say maybe with a little less BH, but not as short as the Mystic. Definetly keep the Scepter though.

Also, What about a paralel limb target bow? Just throwin it out there. The Bowtech Constitution seemed to do well in the target realm, as did the Ross Comp. Bow. Maybe its not such a bad concept? I don't know enough about spots shooting to know if this is a practical idea, just basing it on those other bows I mentioned and their popularity.

[bfisher]

The problem with most parallel limbed target bows is that they have to have a reflexed riser. This just isn't the best combination. Plus most target shooters want a little feedback from the bow. Call it hand shock, forward jump or whatever, when the bow goes off and goes forward the archer has a better idea of how well he followed through.

Younger guys these days that have never experienced bows from years ago have some concept that every bow should be absolutely dead at the shot. And some older bows were absolute terrors sometimes. Some would give some of us a good case of tennis elbow just from the vibration.

But if you look and see what the majority of really really good target shooters are shooting it will most likely end up being something with a straight or deflexed riser and more conventional limb configuration. And longer ATA at that, reason being that the longer bow just hangs more vertical without the shooter having to twist it around. That's partly the reason for 10* down knuckles for stabilizers used these days.

I'm not saying parallel limbed bows are not accurate because that would not be right, but people get so stupid about brand loyalty and such that they think they have the greatest thing since sliced bread when they have never given anything else an honest try to compare. And by that I don't mean a few shots, but maybe a month or so of shooting to give the body time to accustom itself to a new feel.

Also, what one man's definition of accuracy may not be the same as another's. Hitting a 5" circle (3D vital) at 45 yards is not the same as hitting a 5" bullseye at 90 meters. It's all perception----or lack of it.

[flytier17]

I agree about the follow through of the bow. I like my bows, even the hunting ones to rotate forwards smoothly and quickly. I keep my arm extended until the stabilizer butt slides into my hane. My bows rotate almost 135* before I catch them. The arrow is in the butt long before I drop my arm @ 20 yds.

[Montalaar]

I agree with both of you.

I have said before that Martin needs to design another target bow. At least something with an AtA over 35, better over 37". And a draw length range from 25" to 32" as it was possible with the Nitrous Cams or the Furious Cams.

My Razor-X is a great bow and i love the design and everything. I do not like that Mystic at all but the Scepter is a great bow. I also liked the design of the Cougar in combination with the Elite limbs. Maybe i will get one if it is still available at the end of this year, maybe not. Two Razor-X and a Limbsaver DZ36 should be enough for some years and i cannot afford a new bow every year.

The Design of the Alien-X is great but i do not like the AtA. It is just to short for me. And no draw length for me available. Why does Martin offer those loads of short AtA bows? Is it just because most people in the USA are buying thos short bows?


Unfortunately our discussion will make no change in the product line. Although i really like Martin bows.

[bfisher]

I agree with both of you.

I have said before that Martin needs to design another target bow. At least something with an AtA over 35, better over 37". And a draw length range from 25" to 32" as it was possible with the Nitrous Cams or the Furious Cams.

My Razor-X is a great bow and i love the design and everything. I do not like that Mystic at all but the Scepter is a great bow. I also liked the design of the Cougar in combination with the Elite limbs. Maybe i will get one if it is still available at the end of this year, maybe not. Two Razor-X and a Limbsaver DZ36 should be enough for some years and i cannot afford a new bow every year.

The Design of the Alien-X is great but i do not like the AtA. It is just to short for me. And no draw length for me available. Why does Martin offer those loads of short AtA bows? Is it just because most people in the USA are buying thos short bows?


Unfortunately our discussion will make no change in the product line. Although i really like Martin bows.

Yes Simon, the present generation of hunters in the US are so damned brainwashed into thinking that shorter is better when shooting out of a treestand. They have never shot anything longer than about 34" so have no idea of how much better they might be able to shoot with a longer ATA bow. They also have some idea that 3-4" groups at 20 yards is accurate. They've never seen someone take a 40"+ bow and shoot 3" groups at 60 yards. Even so, if confronted they still make some excuse like "It's good enough for hunting".

I don't know about Europeans, but many Americans just can't handle having their egos bruised. You see it on almost every forum. If you don't shoot some $800 Hoyt, Mathews or Bowtech then you are just some misfit shooting a piece of junk--at least in their minds.