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Thread: Question about Vapor Trail Limb Driver

  1. #11
    brushrat
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    Default hi Flytier

    I read your previous post and the part about the rest needing a small (controlled) amount of flex, peaked my interest. And you're right, that is why a lot of your non drop-away rests have verticle tension adjustments. It only makes sense ,the same concept should apply for a drop-away. How then did you determine the optimum rest tension for your setup (spine/ draw wt. combination)? I do not have a "Whammy Elite" , but "dremeling" just the right amount from the stainless support arm on my rest could help absorb that deflection. That is of course, if NAP hasn't already calculated that in. I know paradox and nock travel can't be completley eliminated ,but one can always chip away at it.

    What you say .....about sharing your calculation method? thanks Del

  2. #12
    flytier17
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    With a martin dual cam, the only nock travel is straight forward, unless you don't know how to tune a bow. There is no vertical nock travel o any of My Nitrous systems. And, with my "X" systems, there is no sideways ewither. Unless, my form is crap, then the whole theory goes out the window.

    Hers how to get the best support.

    Place the bow in a vice, or hold it till the string is vertical, and the arrow horozontal. With the bow at rest (undrawn) The arrow should barely be held up, or close to it. If the rest can bring the arow up within the first inch or 2 of draw, that is still good.

    My Slayer with a Whammy and FMJ's at 470grs. will barely hold the arrow up at rest. My Scepter with a Platinum and 2312's will support the arrow after the bow is drawn 2" or so. Ar rest, the arrow is too heavy for the tension in the arm.

    The actual launcher blades can flex too, btu you won't get that on a dropaway. Unless you buy the blade and attatch it, but then you might as well just have the target rest to start with.

    Barry; I think the ad about full containment is for people who do stalks and move around with a nocked arrow, and don't want the arrow to fall off the rest and tic against the riser. To that end, the Whammy can be rotated sideways 90degrees before the arrow falls off.

    I've personally drawn my Slayer on a buck as I was lying flat on my back. I was on a spot-n-stalk, and had to lay down when he doubled back on his tracks. I lay behind a bush, and he walked 4 feet from me. I drew lying down with the bow horozontal, and then sat up and turned. Now that buck jumped the arrow and I didn't get him, but there is no way I could've drawn like that with a support rest.

    Alec

  3. #13
    Super Moderator bfisher's Avatar
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    I understand your situation, but realistically, how many people ever have this happen? Spot and stalk is cool too, but I'd never do it with an arrow nocked, at least not till I were close enough to make a shot. Too many people die doing things like this.

    In case you haven't figured it out I like to be arguementative. (spelling)

    Now, may I comment on your assessment about the blade rest bending to support the arrow? On this one I agree with you. How does a drop away do this? Maybe I don't understand your post, but most drop aways that I know of are designed to "drop" for fletching clearance. To do this they don't rise up till about the last 1-2" of the draw cycle. Conversely, when shot they only support the arrow for that inch or so of string travel so how does that add stability to the arrow?
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  4. #14
    brushrat
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    Default flytier

    thanks for breaking it down further for me. Iv'e never paid any attention as to how a whammy rest is designed . So that particular rest has the tension built into it (internally) , it doesn't have a flexible launcher arm. I was going to try to duplicate the tension on mine by making the laucher arm more "springy" (if thats a term), to replicate the same thing. I would have to remove a lot of metal from my arm to make it soft enough to settle slightly with the weight of my arrow. Hmmmmmmmm looks like i need a plan "B".

    JUst curious ,maybe you already said.......but do you have a tension adjustment knob on that particular rest? thanks again

  5. #15
    Illyan
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    I have a NAP Quicktune Flipper, now called Freedom...i love it, it's a great release...

    no string for fall away, simple set-up, full containment for the arow...

    I has been a little creak, but with a good tuning it's disappear.

    Try it

  6. #16
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    I posted a VT vs Whammy on thread on archery talk to get more input. There was some concern about the Whammy failing after repeated usage, and then having fletch clearing issues. The Spot-Hogg website has an impressive video that does show the differences in arrow support times on several brands, and yes it does show the Vapor Trail. http://www.realoutdoorstv.com/users/.../videos/public

    It is the first video listed. If you haven't seen it, please check it out and then tell me what you think. Some of you guys have an incredible amount of technical knowledge, and I would love to see what your take on this is.

  7. #17
    flytier17
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    Barry; Thats why I like the whammy so much. It is always up. It supports the arrow all the way to the fletches. it drops so fast, it can provide maximum support to the shaft till the fletches are almost at it, and then drop. The cord ties into your downward moving cable. The faster the bow fires, the faster the rest drops. You can time it for different bows by having the cord trigger the rest in different points. If the cord is tight, there will be less arrow support for long fletches. For short fletches, you let the whammy trigger ride up a bit till the berger hole shows, and then tie it in.

    It is always up, and when the bow fires, it drops down and then flicks up again. Too fast to see.

    I've owned 4 whammy's and never had a problem with one. The only fletch clearence problems come when someone doesn;t time the rest properly, and they use a long fletch. Also, some shoot cock fletch down, and use a highprofile fletch. If you shoot cock fletch up, that is never an issue.

    The only whammy that broke on me was when my release broke and the head got launched straight into my rest prongs. Spot-Hogg sent me new ones ASAP.

    I'll not deny it, the Whammy does require a little fiddling to get it right. A lot of bowhunters who don't know how to do this, or are too lazy can't ge tthe rest to work, and then they say it is a bad rest and has poor fletch clearence. I think that 99% of these people should just learn how to set up a whammy properly, and they would love it.

    Alec

  8. #18
    flytier17
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    Quote Originally Posted by brushrat View Post
    thanks for breaking it down further for me. Iv'e never paid any attention as to how a whammy rest is designed . So that particular rest has the tension built into it (internally) , it doesn't have a flexible launcher arm. I was going to try to duplicate the tension on mine by making the laucher arm more "springy" (if thats a term), to replicate the same thing. I would have to remove a lot of metal from my arm to make it soft enough to settle slightly with the weight of my arrow. Hmmmmmmmm looks like i need a plan "B".

    JUst curious ,maybe you already said.......but do you have a tension adjustment knob on that particular rest? thanks again
    No, the whammy spring tension cannot be adjusted. But like I said, for most arrows between 430 and 55o grs., it is the right tension. And even if the arrow is beyond those parameters, it is still much better than a fixed rest. Any flex, even if it is stiff or floppy, is still better.

    Alec

  9. #19
    Super Moderator bfisher's Avatar
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    Whammy might be worth a look, if for nothing else just for me to keep up with the technology. I might have issues with it though because of the arrow weight. Only able to shoot 45# my present 3D arrows weigh in at 270 grains and my new, properly spined ones will be right at 230 grains.

    But I do have to listen to what I often tell others. Don't take people's word for things. Go try it and find out for myself. Then I'll know. Still don't like that cord idea though. Call me hard headed
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  10. #20
    flytier17
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    Barry, sometimes you can be hardheaded.

    Well, you asked for it!

    if you order direct from Spot-Hogg, they can adjust the internal spring for you to be a bit weaker. This in not something you can do yourself unless you don't mind voiding the warrenty as it involves taking the casing apart.

    Alec

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