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Thread: release vs fingers

  1. #11
    golfisserious
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    http://www.jkarchery.com/servlet/the-63/bows/Detail

    I don't know what year this is from, someone on here will know all the model numbers...

  2. #12
    Super Moderator bfisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by golfisserious View Post
    http://www.jkarchery.com/servlet/the-63/bows/Detail

    I don't know what year this is from, someone on here will know all the model numbers...
    Looks like a 2005 model. I've got one here right now, but it's a little different. I custom ordered it with SE limb pockets so it ended up being
    32 1/2" long with a 9 3/8" brace height. I'm considering getting standard limb pockets and making it a ShadowCat Magnum. It's got 14" straight limbs, B Nitrous X cams, and Winner's Choice rigging.

    We'll see. I get a lot of ideas and just never follow through with them. I end up with a new bow instead.
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  3. #13
    TXN
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    Sorry about the double post yesterday. I think I clicked my "back" key and it posted it again!

    I have still been trying to locate a place where I can order a 2010 Shadowcat, but have been unsuccessful in finding any info online. However, I did run across some info that may explain why, but I'm a little confused about it, so maybe somebody can clear it up for me. Do I understand correctly that Martin Pro Series bows can only be purchased from specific Pro Series dealers and that I will have to actually go to one of these dealers to place an order? Is it not possible to simply place an order on the Martin website and have the bow shipped to me? I'm thinking that when my next payday comes around in 3 weeks, I would like to purchase a new Shadowcat, but I need to find out who I can get one from first. Any good leads on this would be great!

    If I have to go to a Pro Series dealer, I think I'm looking at an all day drive to get there, so I would prefer to just have the bow shipped to me if at all possible. They sure don't make it easy to buy one of these bows, do they?

    I've considered the option of buying a used bow, but have decided that the newest technology is the way to go since I may not purchase another bow in my lifetime.

    I'm still interested in more info on using a release too. Specifically, I'd like to know about how a release will relate to draw length and anchor point compared to using fingers. This is probably a very old subject that has been talked about in great detail in the past, but I have been far removed from the modern archery scene for quite some time and am still stuck somewhere back in the 80's, so a quick refresher on the subject would be most enlightening to me. Thanks!

  4. #14
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    Default finger bows

    TXN go to archery talk.com wich is owned by Martin and you will find all the Info. thet you are looking for and then some check site out best on web.

  5. #15
    Senior Member alex's Avatar
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    Can't answer your first question, because i don't live in the US and my best guess is to use the "find a dealer" or "online shop" options in Martin website. About the anchor point - it'll change without any doubt - i also used the corner of my mouth, but now i put the knuckle of my index finger under the end of my jаw....or at least this is my best way to describe it in English
    2008 Martin MOAB - 45-60#, set at about 51-53# / 55#" Perfect Line" compound/ 55# Mongol horsebow/ 45# "Perfect Line" takedown recurve/ 45# Bearpaw Grizzly hunter recurve/ 55# Samick Longbow Cheetah ... and several homemade bows

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    Quote Originally Posted by TXN View Post
    ..........I'm still interested in more info on using a release too. Specifically, I'd like to know about how a release will relate to draw length and anchor point compared to using fingers..........
    I've also been shooting fingers a long time and recently switched from fingers to release (just last Sept).
    Yes it did shorten my draw length, when using a "D" loop for release attachment, probably end up a full inch shorter by the time I get done messing around........and getting comfortable with a new anchor point was frustrating, but not really that tough.

    My finger release is with a glove, one finger over/two under w/thumb set under behind base of ear and top finger under jaw.....been very solid and consistent for me for over 20+ yrs
    (finger bow is a '96 Martin Pro-Series Firecat XRG, 43" ATA, pin sight but no peep)

    With wrist strap release (Scott Little Goose Deluxe), I ended up placing back knuckle of top finger under base of ear where I used to place my thumb
    (release bow is a '09 Martin Bengal, 32" ATA, pin sight and peep)

    I would not be able to have one bow tuned/sighted in for my finger shooting and be able to switch to the release on the same bow and have it shoot the same.

    Just took a little time to find a spot I could hit naturally/quickly, but now works fine.
    One thing I quickly learned with release, is to keep my trigger finger firmly behind the trigger until at full draw and on target, then roll finger around to gently tap trigger to fire.......guess not really different than custom light trigger pull I have on rifles, but after all these years finger shooting bows, I had some mental adjustment to make as well as equipment adjustments.

    With finger bow, in perfect conditions, would and have taken a buck at just over 40yds. However, I will admit using a release has improved my groups and my groups are more consistent in all conditions.
    The one problem/downside/dislike I still have with a release is that it's slower to get a shot off and just more crap to deal with, but I'm adapting ok.

    If I were to buy a new finger bow today, the Martin Shadowcat would be top of my list.
    "My" pick for hunting bow w/release......Shadowcat, Warthog, or either Firecat in the Pro series, and Bengal or Pantera in the Gold series.

    When I bought my Bengal last fall I wasn't to sure about a 32" ATA, really wanting the 35" Warthog, but not sure about this whole release thing either. The deal was good on the Bengal so went for it. Now after shooting it a while it's actually not bad at all and I'm kind of liking this new tech stuff.
    2009 Martin Bengal M2 Pro Cam w/factory STS & CCS.....66lbs, 29" DL, 422gr @ 272fps, Winners Choice string/cable, Trophy Taker drop-away Rest, Scott Release
    1996 Martin Firecat XRG Pro Series w/Ultra Sonic wheels.....69lbs, 29" DL, 465gr @ 245fps, w/fingers & Martin leather glove

  7. #17
    golfisserious
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    TXN

    on page 1 of this thread, 5 posts down is a link to a write up on shooting with release, and a video; he does ramble on but its all good stuff. When my dad switched to release, I had to have him watch all the videos; he wasn't hearing me, when I was telling him that his anchor point was "floating".

    That said, he had a double transition, he moved to release for the first time, and used a peep for the first time. He can now group with me to 40yds.

    Whereas before, we had lots of blood trailing experiences, on deer he had shot, to say the least. Its funny really when I was about 25, I bought him one of the faux deer targets, to make sure he knew where the kill zone was... he was peeved...we were much more competitive then and I never much paid attention to what he was doing, because I was "beating" him. After I switched to a release, there was no longer any competition, whatsoever.

    Side note, I don't think its smart, but I have seen guys that used the metal releases, like the nicer Carter's and they anchored their thumb knuckle at the base of their ear lobe, seemed to me they were awfully close to their peep, but Eric, shot a nice doe this year at just over 40 yds, and made a perfect shot, about 10 minutes after sunset...so its working for him... different strokes for different folks I guess... I just worry that on a left over the shoulder shot, that string is going to rip about half of his face off.

  8. #18
    scepter1158
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    I can relate to this transition from fingers to release very well. I am also a finger shooter starting back in 1972 and having to switch to release in 2002 after fracturing my wrist.

    My favorite finger bow was my ScepterII with the Z-cams. It had the A to A, the brace heigth, the speed, the valley and softer wall us finger shooters like at full draw. That bow got me 7th at vegas shooting in the unlimited class in the championship flight and many state NFAA championships in 3D, indoor, and field rounds. I wish I still had it.

    I anchore the same as you. So, depending on witch release you are going to use, you are going to give up some draw length. Using a release that has a trigger way foreward such as the Scott Rino and couple of there other models, there won't be much of a loss.

    Alot of guys don't recomend the wrist strap releases but I personally get along with them fine. I now shoot the bowhunter release class and I shoot a 300 50+ Xs every Wed. night at league. Even had my share of 60xs. It is all about form. If you are pulling into your shot with your back muscles and don't punch the trigger, you will do fine. I use an older Scott Rino.

    Still, I like the longer A to A bows. I have an 08 Firecat right now but don't like shooting it. It is too light. I have solid steel stabilizer weights to help weight it down and it is still too light. I don't feel as stable at full draw as I do with my other bows. It is very fast, quiet, accurate, and no vibration. That is all very sweet. But I like weight.

    I do not feel handy capped shooting my longer bows for hunting. My other hunting bow is 40" Ato A and I have no problems getting around with it anywhere I hunt. It is a 96 model, I use the Z-cams on it with my release, 7 1/4" brace, 29" draw, 59lb pull, and shoots 296fps. Just cronoed it yesterday. It's all about what you like.

  9. #19
    Super Moderator bfisher's Avatar
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    TXN,

    Seems you're getting all kinds of good help here. It's a lot to digest isn't it? But it's fun at the same time. Nothing like learning new stuff.

    Addressing your question about a possible draw length change. When you draw with fingers the string makes a nice round curve around those fingers. With a release it bcomes a sharper bend so lss radius. This usually means you have to alter the draw length you are used to, 1/2" to 1". If adding a string loop this makes you stretch out more so maybe that full inch will become a necessity.

    If you get on Archery Talk and do a search using "shooting form" you'll get all kinds of things to look at. Pay particular attention to posts by Nut&Bolts. This guy has things down to a science and has helped many a shooter on that forum.

    You're always going to hear about shooting with perfect form. Someone else will say to forget perfection and shoot what's comfortable. Thing is archery is no different from any other sport involving accuracy. Perfect form is something few ever achieve, but you still have to start with the basics and get a good knowledge base of what is correct and what isn't. Then you can experiment to find what's comfortable staying within the realm of good form. No matter how you do it it has to be repeatable from shot to shot to shot to........
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  10. #20
    TXN
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    Yes, I'm getting all sorts of great input here and I really appreciate it. You guys have been far more helpful than I had anticipated!

    When I came to this forum, I had done a little research and had decided that the Warthog or Firecat was probably the choice I would make. After just a day of additional learning, I have totally shifted my focus to the new Shadowcat. For one thing, it is just a plain excellent looking bow. Also, after learning a bit about the difference between short and long bows, I think my mind is made up that I want to go with the longer bow. As for the fingers vs release issue, I really like the fact the the Shadowcat would give me the option of sticking with finger shooting if that is what I desire. I have every intention of trying a release in order to see if I can get the hang of it and if I enjoy shooting that way, but I want to be able to say, "no thanks" and go back to fingers if a release doesn't seem to suit me. Still, I see that so many people are shooting with a release and most seem to swear by it that I can't imagine that it is something that I wouldn't be able to catch on to. All of the info you guys have provided on this subject is great and I am continuing to learn more through continued research and going back over the posts you have left. I guess I just need to get a release in my hand and try it for myself.

    Considering that I have totally shifted my focus from the warthog/firecat to the Shadowcat in a matter of about a day, I guess its good that I have some time before payday before I commit to buying it. I want to continue learning more in order to be sure that this is the bow for me. It seems like it will be such an incredible bow that I would be surprised if I don't love it.

    And still....I can't find a place to buy one. In an earlier post, bfisher suggested that the price of the Shadowcat may be around $749. That is a little more than I had intially planned to pay for a new bow, but then I started thinking that I've paid more than that for some of my rifles, so why wouldn't I expect to pay this much for a really great bow? It actually sounds like a good deal if that is the price! Now, if only I can find one! I haven't made any phone calls to Martin dealers yet because I thought I might be able to find a place to order online, but that is apparently not an option. I think I'll try to make a phone call or two when I get a break from work tomorrow. If anyone has any info on how to order one online, I'd be interested in checking it out. Thanks again for all the help.

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