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Thread: A few questions

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  1. #1
    sluggo
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    Default A few questions

    I have a brand new 2009 Cheetah coming in the mail from a Martin dealer. It supposedly has the CCS & STS factory installed, not dealer installed or so he says.

    #1 - I've read that when you use the CCS you should also use a slightly longer cable. If the bow comes from the factory with the CCS installed does the bow also come with the longer cable?

    #2 - Does the 2009 Cheetah really weigh 3.4lbs or is that "optimistic" or should I say, what does it really weigh?

    #3 - Does the CCS & STS provide any real benefit or would I be better off going with the standard cable guard and string silencers?

    #4 - I know it says IBO is 315-320fps but realistically what should I expect from a 60lb pull, 29" draw, 380gr arrow and nothing on the string but a D-loop and a G-5 Meta peep?

    Thank you.

  2. #2
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    Here goes

    #4 first - with that setup you will be between around 275fps(that heavy arrow is robbing allot of speed)

    #3 - The CCS provides ample clearance for any vane or feather and the STS does quiet the bow and eliminate string slap.

    #2 - never put the one I had on the scale but it is less than 4#s

    #1 - If you put the CCS on yourself yes you need longer cables and string to not get the added preload that amountds to an additional 5-10# on your setup. If it came factory with the CCS they likely use a different deflection limb and the normal cable length.
    2010 Alien X
    29"/70#
    353gr GT Velocity XT 400 @ 320fps
    370gr GT Velocity Hunter 300 @ 315fps
    Tru-Fire Hurricane Release
    NAP Apache Rest
    Black Gold AMP 3 pin sight
    Limbsaver stabilizer
    G5 Montec

  3. #3
    sluggo
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    Thanks for the info Brem, much appreciated.

    So, for the rest of you out there, does Brem have it pretty well nailed or are there other thoughts to the questions? Somebody has probably weighed a Cheetah?

  4. #4
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    #1: My '09 Bengal came with factory installed CCS and STS.......the factory cable was 1/2" longer. With that exception, all else was the same as the standard model.

    #2: Agree w/Brem.

    #3: Agree w/Brem, although I'm not personally convinced yet that the CCS really does much, but sure doesn't hurt either, so if it comes with it, great.

    #4: My guess for your set-up would be 270-275.
    Even though by my old school standards a 380gr grain arrow isn't what I would call heavy (I use 425gr & 465gr), you are loosing some from IBO.
    Estimates I use based on measurements I've taken on my Martin bows are:
    1" Draw Length = 10fps <-10>
    1lb Draw weight = 2.5fps <-25>
    4.4grs = 1fps <-7>
    Then for string accessories it varies, but I've typically seen only +/-3fps for all items you mention.

    That reminds me. Did a speed check last weekend comparing a tube/peep (56gr) vs G5 peep (4.5gr). On my set-up, the gain going from yube/peep to G5 peep was 5 fps.
    Added cat whiskers later, approx 3" from cam/wheel, for a loss of 2 fps
    2009 Martin Bengal M2 Pro Cam w/factory STS & CCS.....66lbs, 29" DL, 422gr @ 272fps, Winners Choice string/cable, Trophy Taker drop-away Rest, Scott Release
    1996 Martin Firecat XRG Pro Series w/Ultra Sonic wheels.....69lbs, 29" DL, 465gr @ 245fps, w/fingers & Martin leather glove

  5. #5
    sluggo
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    Brem & RLW,
    I just received a reply from Martin that "if the bow is ordered with a factory CCS the 1/2" longer cable is installed" so that question is definitively answered.

    If I can get 270-275 fps out of the setup I described I will be very happy indeed so I am hopeful.

    So the STS should reduce or eliminate wrist slap and reduce bow noise. Sounds good to me. It would be nice to not have to add silencers to the string to take string noise out so that's cool.

    Thanks guys for your help with these questions.

    In pictures it doesn't look like Martin puts serving over the idler wheel area or around the CCS area. Do you think I will need to do that to prevent premature string wear?

  6. #6
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    Not sure what you mean by the STS eliminating a wrist strap, but it will reduce string noise.....however, on my set-up, the cat whiskers still reduce it even more.

    Martin strings do not wrap over idler wheel and adding extra serving weight to factory string "might" slow speed slightly.
    The Winners Choice string I just had put on, does have serving over idler wheel, but strings are different, so can't say what impact the extra serving alone actually had.

    This is my first single cam bow. I really don't know if it will would make much difference on wear.
    My gut feeling is it's not that big a deal and you will probably change strings before wear becomes a factor due to that issue.
    2009 Martin Bengal M2 Pro Cam w/factory STS & CCS.....66lbs, 29" DL, 422gr @ 272fps, Winners Choice string/cable, Trophy Taker drop-away Rest, Scott Release
    1996 Martin Firecat XRG Pro Series w/Ultra Sonic wheels.....69lbs, 29" DL, 465gr @ 245fps, w/fingers & Martin leather glove

  7. #7
    tarheeler88
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    Sluggo,

    I hate to dissapoint...but I have an '08 and the best I can get out of a 390 gr. arrow with a biscuit at 29" is 252...this is after a great deal of tweaking.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarheeler88 View Post
    Sluggo,

    I hate to dissapoint...but I have an '08 and the best I can get out of a 390 gr. arrow with a biscuit at 29" is 252...this is after a great deal of tweaking.
    I noticed you mentioned a Warthog not shooting very fast either. What draw weight are you shooting these bows? .......or maybe should ask, what chronograph, used under what kind of lighting?

    Between the 1" shorter draw length and 40gr over IBO arrow weight, there's typically only about 20 fps drop from IBO
    2009 Martin Bengal M2 Pro Cam w/factory STS & CCS.....66lbs, 29" DL, 422gr @ 272fps, Winners Choice string/cable, Trophy Taker drop-away Rest, Scott Release
    1996 Martin Firecat XRG Pro Series w/Ultra Sonic wheels.....69lbs, 29" DL, 465gr @ 245fps, w/fingers & Martin leather glove

  9. #9
    sluggo
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    The bow came in the mail yesterday so the weight of a 2009 Cheetah with CSS & STS and nothing else on it is 3lbs 15oz. The STS is only 1.5oz of that. I don't know how they come up with 3.4 lbs. Maybe if you took off the cable guard, string, cable, cam, idler wheel and stripped off the camo paint. Also the max draw weight is 64lbs and it is supposed to be a 55-70lb bow. Not sure what to do about that.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by sluggo View Post
    The bow came in the mail yesterday so the weight of a 2009 Cheetah with CSS & STS and nothing else on it is 3lbs 15oz. The STS is only 1.5oz of that. I don't know how they come up with 3.4 lbs. Maybe if you took off the cable guard, string, cable, cam, idler wheel and stripped off the camo paint. Also the max draw weight is 64lbs and it is supposed to be a 55-70lb bow. Not sure what to do about that.
    Same thing happened to me and my 09 bengal as far as draw weight goes. Add twitsts to the cable to get it to peak at 70 lbs. Also, check all your specs such as A2A and BH.

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