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Thread: bare shaft tuning with bengal

  1. #1
    brushrat
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    Default bare shaft tuning with bengal

    this is driving me nuts! shot all day today shooting a 28" gold tip hunter xt (55-75) bareshaft with 3 fletched arrows of the same (2" duravanes....and 100gr. target points). The bareshaft , no mater what i did ,shot aprox. 6-10" right and slightly lower than my fletched arrows at 30yds. (also ,it always landed tail left) . That shows a weak spine according to everything iv'e read. I moved my dropaway rest all the way left (a little at a time) then all the way to the right, it still impacted right every time. Not once did it go left .

    I'm only set at 52Lbs. (2 1/2 turns out) ......surely those 55-75's are not too weak for 52 lbs. with an Mpro cam. ???????????

    Can anybody tell me what the h___ (heck) is going on? thanks

  2. #2
    timtim146
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    I dont really know why its doing that bud id suggest centering ur drop away with ur center shot then just adjusting ur sight to the right.

  3. #3
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    I'm certainly not an expert, but I think shooting compounds with release you can sometimes get the opposite reaction to what is "normal" on bare shaft tuning. (is 30yds a long way to expect clean bare shaft flight??)
    Actually had that happen to me with a compound/finger release, where I was getting "righthand" reactions with my "lefthand" shooting, both paper tuning and bare shaft tuning.

    My last bow shot almost perfect bullet holes thru paper, and arrows flew great, but frustrated to heck out of me attempting get any thing consistent w/bare shafts. This time w/my Bengal I only paper tuned........fld pts and broadheads are both hitting where I aim, so I'm good with it.

    Downloaded a trial copy of "Software for Archers" the other day http://www.pinwheelsoftware.com/ and had my Bengal loaded in there.......just pulled it up, adjusted lbs and arrow to your post and it does show that Gold Tip XTH 5575 being pretty stiff.
    FYI: program shows the XTH 3555 being slightly weak, but closer spined & 5fps faster (calc'd 258)

    Maybe try a 125gr fld point on the 5575 and see if that makes it better or worse??.......if it is actually stiff, that should pull it closer together
    Last edited by RLW; 11-06-2009 at 07:45 AM.
    2009 Martin Bengal M2 Pro Cam w/factory STS & CCS.....66lbs, 29" DL, 422gr @ 272fps, Winners Choice string/cable, Trophy Taker drop-away Rest, Scott Release
    1996 Martin Firecat XRG Pro Series w/Ultra Sonic wheels.....69lbs, 29" DL, 465gr @ 245fps, w/fingers & Martin leather glove

  4. #4
    brushrat
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    Quote Originally Posted by RLW View Post
    I'm certainly not an expert, but I think shooting compounds with release you can sometimes get the opposite reaction to what is "normal" on bare shaft tuning. (is 30yds a long way to expect clean bare shaft flight??)
    Actually had that happen to me with a compound/finger release, where I was getting "righthand" reactions with my "lefthand" shooting, both paper tuning and bare shaft tuning.

    My last bow shot almost perfect bullet holes thru paper, and arrows flew great, but frustrated to heck out of me attempting get any thing consistent w/bare shafts. This time w/my Bengal I only paper tuned........fld pts and broadheads are both hitting where I aim, so I'm good with it.

    Downloaded a trial copy of "Software for Archers" the other day http://www.pinwheelsoftware.com/ and had my Bengal loaded in there.......just pulled it up, adjusted lbs and arrow to your post and it does show that Gold Tip XTH 5575 being pretty stiff.
    FYI: program shows the XTH 3555 being slightly weak, but closer spined & 5fps faster (calc'd 258)

    Maybe try a 125gr fld point on the 5575 and see if that makes it better or worse??.......if it is actually stiff, that should pull it closer together
    good information. From everything iv'e ever heard, when bare shafts hit rt. of fletched arrows that they are spined too weak, so i never even tryed adding heavier points. Hey, what the heck i'll give that a try, what do i have to lose. And if that shows an improvement ,i might tightning my limb bolts down a turn (from 52 to 55lbs) and see if that further improves it. Thanks

  5. #5
    Super Moderator bfisher's Avatar
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    Read RLW's first sentence. This is right in Easton's Tuning Guide; next to last paragraph on page 13.

    Your arrows may be acting stiff. I've had the same thing myself. When bare shaft tuning always take care of the vertical flight first (nocking point). Get the arrow level. Then do the horizontal.

    With some carbon arrows you have to be careful, too. Sometimes spine deviation can make an arrow plane off. If the shaft is shooting to the right, as you say, try turning the arrow 180 degrees and see if it goes left. If it does then the shaft has inconsistent spine.

    My gut is telling me that your arrows are acting stiff. Try adding 1/2 turn to the limbs to see if it helps. OH yeah, do the nocking point first.

    Comment to RLW; Tuning a bare shaft to 30 yards is quite acceptable if your form is consistent. I've got mine out to 40 right now. They're planing about 3" high at that, but that's a fur piece for me and bare shafts. 30 yards is dead nuts with fletched arrows.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bfisher View Post
    Read RLW's first sentence.........
    The "I'm certainly not a expert" part


    I would like to hear how this works out.

    Rarely tried bare shaft tuning past 20yds, but then I've always been a finger shooter until 7 weeks ago. Get out there too far, get lazy or sloppy with my release and pluck the string, things could get ugly in a hurry with a bare stick.

    Haven't tried with my Bengal and release.....honestly didn't plan to do anything other than paper tune and the little fine tuning I did to get field points and broadheads grouping together, but now I'm curious.
    2009 Martin Bengal M2 Pro Cam w/factory STS & CCS.....66lbs, 29" DL, 422gr @ 272fps, Winners Choice string/cable, Trophy Taker drop-away Rest, Scott Release
    1996 Martin Firecat XRG Pro Series w/Ultra Sonic wheels.....69lbs, 29" DL, 465gr @ 245fps, w/fingers & Martin leather glove

  7. #7
    brushrat
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    Quote Originally Posted by timtim146 View Post
    I dont really know why its doing that bud id suggest centering ur drop away with ur center shot then just adjusting ur sight to the right.
    tryed that tim. If i set my sight to the bareshaft..... my fletched arrows would still remail that 8" left (bareshaft still right). Oh well tommorrow if its not raining too hard i want to try a few things . Mainly heavier points and maybe cranking down the limb bolts a little. THanks

  8. #8
    brushrat
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    Default got results but had to use differant strategy...

    Quote Originally Posted by RLW View Post
    The "I'm certainly not a expert" part


    I would like to hear how this works out.

    Rarely tried bare shaft tuning past 20yds, but then I've always been a finger shooter until 7 weeks ago. Get out there too far, get lazy or sloppy with my release and pluck the string, things could get ugly in a hurry with a bare stick.

    Haven't tried with my Bengal and release.....honestly didn't plan to do anything other than paper tune and the little fine tuning I did to get field points and broadheads grouping together, but now I'm curious.
    Tryed 125 gr. tip but couldn't get any consistancy right of left, so i bagged the bareshaft. After tinkering with my drop speed and centershot position i finally got it to shoot well through paper. After a fashion i finally started grouping real well, so i moved my sight to that position and walla!! Its shooting like the old bengal did and i'm happy. Haven't tryed broadheads yet as i got rained out today. Tommorrow ,barring heavy rain i will do a walk-back to do a final check on my rt/Lt/ and up/down. But i have a great deal of confidence it'll be there and my broadheads should fly well.

    to summarize: was not getting textbook bareshaft results on getting it to fly to the same point as my fletched arrows. I know others have had much better luck than i have doing this. Apparently my form is not consistant enough to allow that. My saving grace turned out to be paper tuning with fletched arrows and tweeking my rest till i started shooting nice, tight groups ,then I just adjusted the sight to where it was impacting. That is what worked for me. THanks to everyone for their help

  9. #9
    glenfoxman
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    Default bare shaft tuning with bengal

    sounds good, but Im a little disappointed that they havent gone for 80gb - maybe the drives arent available yet.



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  10. #10
    golfisserious
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    I am not an expert, I wanna say that right off, but bare shaft tuning... from what I have read, is mainly the best way to tune a bow for a "Fingers" shooter... as for a release shooter, vertical align after you plumb bob you rest to your knock point so both are in perfectly at right angles to each other... I.E.... your shoot string is perfectly straight up down... and your arrow is perfectly level horizontal in relationship to string. Then plumb bob a line, off your knock pt and make sure your rest is perfectly centered for that plumb bob line, when the string is parrallel (horizontally orientated).... then knock arrow, then split your arrow shaft with string, using one eye... and put your sites dead in line with string that is splitting arrow ALL THE WAY TO THE TIP...then shoot 6 arrows on a horizontal 1/2" wide black line... use some tape and put a marker to it... so you have a good target...chase arrow with sight until all six are in, or on that 1/2" line... don't cheat...

    then using a tape measure... make sure that your string is even and exact distance...measure outside or inside string edge (not "middle"), adjust bottom limb bolt out until both measurements are the exact same, measure to where the limb meets the riser to the string, top and bottom... then draw a 1/2" wide line horizontally... shoot 6 arrows...adjusting sight till you are hitting line, then adjust the bottom limb 1/8 turn tighter at a time until your groupings are all in or on the line...

    try it at 20yds after that... if you are shooting release leave the bareshaft and paper tuning alone... you can shoot a perfectly straight hole through a piece of paper at a 45* angle... if you don't believe me shoot it with any gun you have... it will leave a perfectly round hole no matter what angle you shoot from...

    different broadheads have many different flight characteristics... a quality broadhead will group as tightly as your field pts... it just might be in a different area... typically most guys broadheads are different lengths than their field pts... and it changes the flight characteristics of your arrow, get a practice pt that is same length...

    I shoot muzzy phantom broadheads, but use rage practice pts... they are nice and long like my broadheads...

    but won't ever try killing a whitetail with an expandable ever again...I put one in the boilermaker this year at 28 yards and it stopped short of passing through after trying to break the exit rib...very lucky to collect a whitetail without a pass through one is...double lung 2nd year buck and it ran uphill, through a field with barely a blood trail still it started drowning... luckily I had a lighted knock on the arrow... sorry didn't mean to rant... rage broadheads suck...they themselves admitted it by making the "40KE" model

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