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Thread: 2009 to 2010 limb conversion

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by gibson 787 View Post
    Thanks Scott. I was kind of under the impression that because the cams were Cat 2s and not Cats, that it would be OK, but maybe not. I guess if I had to get new cams, I would just can the exercise and get a 2010 Hog.

    As a matter of fact I watched your team perform last night. Playing really well, they beat the Carlton Blues by a narrow margin. I think they're currently running second or third.

    Dave
    Like I said - I am not 100% sure. Martin does have a complete conversion kit.
    There is a thread on it here somewhere but I cant find it now. If I do I will post it on here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiker View Post
    Like I said - I am not 100% sure. Martin does have a complete conversion kit.
    There is a thread on it here somewhere but I cant find it now. If I do I will post it on here.
    OOPs - wrong key - Martin does have a complete kit. I think that Barry would know but he hasn't responded (corrected me) yet so...
    I have to think your right about the limb twist. hard to explain splitting at the fork otherwise - unless it is a stress fracture caused in manufacturing. I have an '09 Firecat that I have shot the snot out of without any issues but...
    I also dont shoot it at 70# or maxed out. Max DW on it is 64# and I shoot it at 60# there is almost 0 cam lean at both brace and full draw and I shoot 390gn arrows with it - so...

    And WhooHoo - - the Purple Tide is doing good!

  3. #13
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    Yeah Scott, been trying to find it myself. Just wish Martin would reply to my emails, with the time difference compounded by daylight saving and Martin closing at 4pm, it's very to difficult phone them!

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    Guys, I have been following this thread, but haven't responded because I thought you had things well in hand. Apparently my help is needed, but I can only say what I know or susepct.

    There is the issue of a kit with all the parts. When I got my Alien Z it had the wrong cams, limbs, and strings. I called Joel and he sent me out the parts kit although it was for the wrong bow. Everything was packaged together and included cams, strings, axles, and Roto cups. The limbs were separate. So apparently Martin.Rytera makes these things up as a package; more than likely for those building the bows at the factory.

    OK, that being said there is also the issue of whether the Cat2 cams will work. It is just my understanding that there are Cat cams and Cat2 cams. From looking at a 2009 catalog of the Warthog only the Cat cams were available that year. It's possible that Cats cams were put on some bows built later in 2009.

    Whatever, the Cat2 cams you have should work with the new limbs, Roto caps and such. One way to tell is to look near the center of the cam where the cable take-up slot is located (hope this is understandable). On a Cat cam this groove is machined straight around the hub. The Cat2 cam has the groove machined on an angle so that when you draw the bow and the cable is rolled off the hub it rolls off and ends up closer to the center of the cam. I have pictures of this on the thread of rebuilding my 2008 FireCat.

    I did just such a conversions some months ago with my 2008 FireCat. I got the 2010 limbs, roto cups, and new strings---no cams. Installed everything and when the bow was drawn the cams leaned badly---like maybe 15 degrees or so. That's when I called Joel and he informed me that the older Cat cam was not compatable with the new limbs style and subsequently sent me 2010 Cat2 cams. These work like a dream.

    As for the limbs. Yes I too believe that Martin had a major issue with limbs on the 2009 and some 2008 bows. Most of the limbs I have seen or heard about all exhibited the same problem--longitudinal split right at the bottom of the limb fork. I split a limb while shooting a 50# bow at only 42#. Shouldn't happen and I can say this is the first time I have lost a limb in 37 years of shooting compound bows. I believe the limbs just couldn't hold up to the stresses on these modern bow designs. Unfortunately the consumer is the one who has to find this out. Considering that many of the splits were diagonal through the limb fork I believe the problem was(is) extreme limb twist at the forks creating a lot more stress on one of the forks, usually the one opposite of the cable guard.

    So far I've had no isues with the newer 4 layer limbs. My Alien has Barnesdale limbs so I don't expect to ever have any problems with them. So now I'll sit back and wait for comments.
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    Great info Barry, thanks. I'll check out the groove in the cam as suggested. They are Cat2s however.

    With regards to the limbs, I have just been informed by a dealer here in Australia that the new 2010 limbs are different in that the laminations are glued such that the fibres are running horizontally in one lamination and virtically in the next and so on. I can see how this would greatly help strength in twisting situations.

    Thanks to all!
    Dave

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    Super Moderator bfisher's Avatar
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    For the pictures you need to go to my thread entitled "My pics of my 2008 FireCat" dated 12/28/09. Can't believe it's been that long. And to think that now that I have my "Z" I'll most likely retire the FireCat.

    When you view the cam from the end of the limb look for what I referred to as a spiral effect. It's not much, but it does work. Also take note that the cams are marked CAT 2. These are 2010 cams.
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    Barry, checked the cams and they are spiralled and also marked Cat 2, so hopefully I can make the change. Did you know about the virtical and horizontal laying of the glass fibres in the new limbs?

    Dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by gibson 787 View Post
    Barry, checked the cams and they are spiralled and also marked Cat 2, so hopefully I can make the change. Did you know about the virtical and horizontal laying of the glass fibres in the new limbs?

    Dave
    No, I hadn't been made aware of the construction of the limbs. Sounds like they're making them similar to old bias ply tires.

    And now to ramble on. I used to shoot for XI. In 2006 they came out with a new limb design which they called Fusion Force limbs. At the ATA show that year they had a 70#, 30" draw Nemisis enclosed in a plexiglass case. In the case was also a machine that drew and dryfired the bow over and over and over. Every 1500 shots the bow was removed and new string/cables were put on. Those limbs were dry fired 5000 times with no damage. (I actually saw this and examined the limbs at a later date).

    Makes me wonder why a company could come up with such technology 15 years ago, but it can't be done today even with newer, better materials.

    Could it be that there is a lot more stress on bows today? I have no doubt. Oh, and my bow of choice that year was a Nemisis.
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    I would say definitely a lot more stress, everythings pushed to the limit to get more speed.

    I actually feel for Martin, they're a good solid long term company, but I reckon they'd be having a few sleepless nights. I certaibly wouldn't be a bow maker in this current climate!

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montalaar View Post
    I read about ShadowCat limbs breaking the other day and talked to a friend of mien about it. 10 minutes later my second set broke.
    Second set

    Quote Originally Posted by gibson 787 View Post
    So buying Barnsdales may not solve the problem.
    Hope not. Not much choice for limbs then!


    Quote Originally Posted by gibson 787 View Post
    I wonder how long it will be before China starts making archery equipment?
    Already happening. Samick has a new 'State of the art' factory there.

    Quote Originally Posted by gibson 787 View Post
    I would say definitely a lot more stress, everythings pushed to the limit to get more speed.
    Carbon arrows play a part imho. The difference in hand shock, noise and vibration when I shoot them out of my old Bear is staggering compared to alloy's. I wont shoot carbons from it anymore, too risky and too uncomfortable!

    Wheel size is a BIG part of it too. Any lean and you have a much bigger 'lever' too add more twist. Maybe its the time for Martin to go for quad limbs, no cracking in the fork, nothing there to crack.


    Btw, I don't feel for Martin, there a business. If they cant get the limbs right they're not going to do well and deserve what they get. Their employee's I would feel sorry for though, would NOT like to see any of them out of a job.

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