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Thread: Short draw lengths doomed

  1. #1
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    Default Short draw lengths doomed

    Are those of us with short draw lengths just outta luck for shooting 300fps????? I got the firecat 400 in hopes of at least coming close and the best i can get is 285fps with 27" draw 70# and 368gr arrow.. I know i can lower the arrow weight but??????

    have a Destroyer 350 that I am hunting with this year. I shoot a 27" dl at 62# dw. I know that a 452grn. FMJ is flying at 283 to 286fps. Post off AT i just dont see how thses guys get the speeds they post.. Although i seen a hoyt crx 27" 66# grained out arrow shoot 302 and it ibos 10 fps slower.... I just dont understand and i didnt want to shoot those other bow!!!!!!!!!!


    my monster 7 at 60# 27.5" draw..peep, loop, and monkey tails was shooting my 400g maxima 350's at 286
    Last edited by sway; 01-16-2011 at 03:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sway View Post
    ...Post off AT i just dont see how thses guys get the speeds they post..
    Because they don't have bow scales, grain scales, or tape measures.

    Instead, they just rely on, "my modules are for 27", and my bow maxes out at 70#".

    I know of two Martin bows that will get 300 F.P.S. with a 27" DL at 70#.
    They don't make them any more though.

    The Slayer and the Cougar, with 13" limbs and Nitrous B cams, will both get over 300 F.P.S. at 27".
    Their "adjusted" IBO speed is 340-345.

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    Super Moderator bfisher's Avatar
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    I'm heere to tell you that Doc is right about the Slayer. Or might I say Slayr. 2004 was the first year I was with Martin and had a Slayr with Nitrous cams on it. Set up at 27.5" draw, 53# and 5gr/lb arrow it shot 308 fps.

    Later in that year I shortened the draw to 27" and it still shot 299 fps. The only bow I ever had that came close to rated speeds.

    I can't tell you how many Martin shooters wish they'd bring back the Nitrous cam.
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  4. #4
    SonnyThomas
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    Default Short draw lengths doomed

    There is no magic in having speeds in excess and especially so if you can't handle the speed. I'll take a slow hit over a fast miss. Heads up shooting where ASA, IBO or NFAA I have done some of my finest scoring with bows in the 275 to 284 fps range. Slower than this in Field, Indoor, and Outdoor target events. And FITA has a 60 pound draw limit. I probably didn't help myself when I agreed to shoot a Staff shooters target Shadowcat at the ASA ProAm in Metropolis this past summer. Only two weeks of shooting it, wasn't really absolutely my sight settings were as good as they should have been, max draw weight of 54 pounds and arrow speed of 261 or 264 fps and fighting the too long a draw length at every shot. I finished middle of the pack for my first ever national circuit event. Was I little apprehensive, intimidated? You bet.

    I just know I'm going to rattle off big time... Lord!

    You don't need speed in known distance spot shooting do you? It's know the distance and drop your arrow in thing. Within reason, for 3D and hunting *judging distance is paramount regardless of speed. The average distance, nation wide, for whitetails in 19 yards. You miss the center by 2 or 3 inches either way and dead deer and this holds true on out to reasonable deer hunting distances - say 35 to 40 yards. My longest deer kill shot was 36 yards.

    *Judging distance is something practiced throughout IBO, ASA and the NFAA 3D shooters. Some make it harder than what it it, this judging yardage. You can practice it virtually anywhere - waiting in your vehicle, what distance to four rows over in a department store or like me at work, how far to the coffee machine, foreman's desk. Pick a object and give it distance. A range finder will tell within a yard. A tape measure will be closer. Don't have either, gage your step - your natural step. For me 6 steps equals 5 yards. Work on a specific distance, 10 or 20 yards. Get it fixed in your mind. Use something to make that fixed in mind distance, a weed, stump, root, tree, bush, something. Then see what doubles that distance or is half that distance. You have that distance, so how much more to the target? Have a number in your mind and add it to you fixed in mind distance and the plus or minus of it. Your not done. Know gage the distance of target back to you.
    Sound long, but with practice those numbers (yards) come just like counting; 1, 2, 3, 4 and so on. The only difference is; 15, mmm? 30 and maybe 2 yards - so 32 yards. From the target; Okay there's 20 and 5 and other 5 and maybe 1 yard - so 31 yards. Using pins you have to do some splitting of sights pins or aim strong or aim weak (flight of the arrow).

    3D. In the ASA that 10 ring probably averages 4 1/2 inches or there of. No biggie here. Lots of us have shot in the 390s and even cleaned the course. When the X or 12 ring is used scores became higher, but hits remained the same. The ASA offset 12 ring added a little challenge, but the higher scores didn't really change. The ASA 14 ring is rarely shot for. It is my understanding that Pros are not allowed the 14 ring now.

    ASA Target Size; Large, Medium, Small
    10-Ring Size (O.D.) 5.250" / 4.625" / 4.000"
    Pro-12 Size (O.D.) 1.875" / 1.750" / 1.625"
    14-Ring Size (O.D.) 1.625" / 1.500" /1.375"

    See above again and then this saying; One pin out to 30 yards. Yep, sure, as long as you know the flight of your arrow. And if you know the flight of your arrow using even a slow bow you can be dead on from right off the arrow out to a great distance with just one pin. My hunting rig, 270 fps, has only a single fixed pin and I'm good out to 40 yards. If target shooting and gunning for the X or 12 ring I'll opt for a movable sight pin.

    There, I did it, rattled off..... Now I have to wait for Carlso to say something.

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    i cant say im not in too speed butttt it is something that id like to have but not in the sacrifice of smoothness and accuracy i was just wondering if there was anything to do that would gain a little speed to shut those hoyt mathews and other brand loyals up???

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    Quote Originally Posted by sway View Post
    ....i was just wondering if there was anything to do that would gain a little speed to shut those hoyt mathews and other brand loyals up???
    No, there is nothing that can be done. They are blind.

    I get in my share of arguments on AT with the fanboys. My goal is never to convert them. It is merely to show the rest of the forum members that they are full of........

    I'm not a fanboy of any brand. Including Martin. In fact, I have been increasingly disappointed with Martin ever since 2006.

    I will say this. When you look at the data that really matters, bows have not significantly improved in performance in the last 10 yes 10, years.

    The average is up, but the top performers are still the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bfisher View Post
    ...I can't tell you how many Martin shooters wish they'd bring back the Nitrous cam.
    There are two truly sound investments, that can be made today.

    Ammunition, and Nitrous cams!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sway View Post
    Are those of us with short draw lengths just outta luck for shooting 300fps????? I got the firecat 400 in hopes of at least coming close and the best i can get is 285fps with 27" draw 70# and 368gr arrow.. I know i can lower the arrow weight but??????
    Are you sure those numbers are good? I assume the chronograph at Hunter's Friend is accurate . Example. My B-I-L just bought a BT Assassin (60-70#). It is supposed to IBO at 333 fps. He had it set to 60 pounds, 29 DL and is shooting 411 grain arrows. Their chrono said it was shooting an average of 279.

    You are shooting more poundage, a faster bow and a lot lighter arrow. I know you lose a little extra with the 27" DL but that much really, 20 fps? What fletching are you using?

    Punch your numbers into the calculator at this link. My brother in law's Assassin shows pretty close to the calculator. Your numbers are really slow compared to the calculator. You should be right at or over 300 FPS according to this.

    http://www.backcountrybowhunting.com/articles/tools.php
    Firecat 400

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    Quote Originally Posted by MLN1963 View Post
    Are you sure those numbers are good?
    Modular cams are an engineering compromise.

    They perform best at their highest DL settings.

    A bow that has an IBO rating of 350 F.P.S. at 30", will typically have an adjusted IBO of less than 340 at 27".

    Add to that the fact that most manufacturers list their mod charts 1/2 shorter than the bows actually draw, you can knock another 5 F.P.S. off of that.
    Last edited by copterdoc; 01-16-2011 at 08:33 PM.

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    I understand that, but it is also why I gave the Assassin as an example. It is close to what the calc says. If you change it's number to 27 it drops 20 fps.
    Firecat 400

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