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Thread: Brass nocking point or Tie?

  1. #21
    SonnyThomas
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    Default Brass nocking point or Tie?

    Quote Originally Posted by CarlosII View Post
    problem i have with d loops is that they always seem to eventually close up leading to a pinch on the nock. thinking about adding brass nocks with the d loop tied above and below the brass nocks.

    opinions?
    Good tight center serving usually eliminates the loop closing up. The center serving is usually the worst offender, even with custom strings. Of course, tied nocks will slip if not tied tight enough or the wrong material is used. I haven't use baler twine, but have used the wife's Button & Carpet thread - Coats & Clark's, extra strong. Wife picked up a bunch at a back yard sale for 25 cents a spool. Really don't care what color because I have a black felt pen handy.

    Like Montalaar I tie my nocks. Once I know they holding and I coat them with Super Glue as added insurance. Next, spacing the tied nocks a bit more or spacing loop knots a bit more than necessary will help eliminate the closing up. Here, if the tied nocks or loop doesn't slip, the extra space has not proven to effect accuracy. Of course, I'm not saying going over board with the spacing. I have seen as much as 1/8" play and accuracy is outstanding. Also, the loop pliers I have at the shop gives a wide spacing - kind of too wide, but....

    On the other hand, nock pinch has proven to give poor accuracy and if not poor accuracy, the then occasional flier for no apparent reason.

    Problems with brass nocks; One, make sure they clamp down evenly. Two, the tiny bit of rubber that sometimes squeezes out may take a bit to wear down. Three, 2 brass nocks fps robbing weight, not much but sometimes enough to make you think you should be aggravated.
    Last edited by SonnyThomas; 02-14-2011 at 05:18 AM.

  2. #22
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    My '09 Martin Bengal has d-loop with a small bit of serving thread tied under top loop to mark where d-loop is, if it were to break........and set even tiller

    My '96 Martin Firecat, shot fingers, has double brass nock (together to help prevent slippage).......been a while since I checked, but believe I last had tiller set at approx 1/8" closer on bottom on that one.

    Haven't tried anything but even tiller on my Bengal, shooting release, but in the past my finger bows seem to do best for me with bottom tiller 1/8" closer.
    2009 Martin Bengal M2 Pro Cam w/factory STS & CCS.....66lbs, 29" DL, 422gr @ 272fps, Winners Choice string/cable, Trophy Taker drop-away Rest, Scott Release
    1996 Martin Firecat XRG Pro Series w/Ultra Sonic wheels.....69lbs, 29" DL, 465gr @ 245fps, w/fingers & Martin leather glove

  3. #23
    Super Moderator bfisher's Avatar
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    I used to use two brass nocksets above the arrow nock, but quit this practice several years ago. Being the nitpicker I was I chrongraphed my bow. Then removed a brass nockset and did it again. Each brass nockset reduced the speed of my bow by 4 fps.

    Right then and there I started tying a nockset with .021" center serving. It only takes about 6 wraps and tied correctly it can be screwed up or down the center just like a nut on a bolt. Makes micro-tuning a breeze.

    I don't use a loop YET, as I use a rope release and have for 30 some years.

    Some might say, what's 4 fps? Well, 4 here and 4 there and pretty soon all the 4's add up to 20fps. Attention to details pays dividends.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by bfisher View Post
    ......Each brass nockset reduced the speed of my bow by 4 fps........ .
    wow 4fps?
    I only saw 1-2fps per nock on my bows, but then then I was shooting 69-74lbs and what would be today thought of as aluminum fence posts at 465 - 505grs
    2009 Martin Bengal M2 Pro Cam w/factory STS & CCS.....66lbs, 29" DL, 422gr @ 272fps, Winners Choice string/cable, Trophy Taker drop-away Rest, Scott Release
    1996 Martin Firecat XRG Pro Series w/Ultra Sonic wheels.....69lbs, 29" DL, 465gr @ 245fps, w/fingers & Martin leather glove

  5. #25
    SonnyThomas
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    Quote Originally Posted by HawgEnvy View Post
    as far as a "properly tillered" bow. Could someone elaborate on that? I've always set even tiller. Is there an advantage to a different approach?
    Quote Originally Posted by CarlosII View Post
    what he said.
    Tiller? Ain't that used on a boat?

    By and large today's bows are designed and machined so that tiller is nothing to worry about...unless you messed with the limbs in some manner.

    Most double cams (regardless of type) are best set with tiller even. Single cam bows are a bit different, but still even. Here, tiller should be checked from a string ran axle to axle. This due to the distance of true diameter of wheel and cam. Usually the cam side will show a tad off if checked back to the bow string.

    Above said, playing with the tiller can improve things, but usually due to the person shooting the bow. On a Hoyt it is something perferred to have the top cam roll over a tad faster than the bow cam. Well, again, this is due to the person. Mostly, my opinion, this is due to the size of the person's hands or that in conjunction with the bow arm. Balance is another area or should I say "feed back?" Okay, some like the bow to "kick" differently.

    Now, I would advise to listen to bfisher or Nuts&Bolts. Me, myself and I have never felt the need to mess with the tiller for any problem or want of feed back.

  6. #26
    Super Moderator bfisher's Avatar
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    I don't think tiller is much to worry about these days. I played around with my Alien Z trying to get it to hold better. I found out that parallel limbs call for different measures. I turned the top limb in two complete turns just to change the tiller about 3/32" whereas with standard vertical limbs it would only take 1/3 turn or so to get the same results. The issue is that the change in tiller is more in the verticle plain than horizontal.
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    Senior Member ElkSlayer's Avatar
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    tied..or just a D loop @ current all compounds are D loops and recurves tied
    It's all fun an games till you put that big boy on the ground.. now its time to get to work
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  8. #28
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    I prefer to tie as it reduces the weight of the strings also last for the long time, though brass nocks are quite easier, and novice than tie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bfisher View Post

    Right then and there I started tying a nockset with .021" center serving. It only takes about 6 wraps and tied correctly it can be screwed up or down the center just like a nut on a bolt. Makes micro-tuning a breeze.
    Can you explain this method of tie? I'm thinking I will employ this method when I finally get rigged up.


    Quote Originally Posted by bfisher View Post
    I don't use a loop YET, as I use a rope release and have for 30 some years.
    Do they still make these releases? What advantage do they have over the new ways? I figure you must be seeing some benefit to using this still or you are a creature of habit.
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    Super Moderator bfisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MLN1963 View Post
    Can you explain this method of tie? I'm thinking I will employ this method when I finally get rigged up.




    Do they still make these releases? What advantage do they have over the new ways? I figure you must be seeing some benefit to using this still or you are a creature of habit.
    Pretty simple really. When tuning I use one brass nockset to find the proper height. Once located I measure where it's at. I measure down from the top axle to the bottom of the nockset. Usually I mark it with a sharpie, too. Then take about 15" of serving material and wrap it around that location and tie a granny knot. Wrap around the other side (180 degrees and tie another granny knot. Back and forth till there are a half dozen knots then tie off the last one with a square knot. Cut off the excess leaving about 1/4" tag end and melt this with a lighter (match).

    If tied tight enough you can screw it up and down the center serving, but it won't slide on it's own. Clipping a release or rope under the nock creates some upward pressure on the nock so you don't want the tied on nockset to slide.

    So why do I use a rope release? Partly creature of habit as that is what I cut my teeth on back in 1975 when I shot a ton of field and target archery. We didn't kow anything about string loops then. Another reason is that I don't care how good you are you'll never tie two string loops the same length. I NEVER have to worry about release jaws abrading the loop or center serving. I've been using the same rope on my release for the better part of ten years and it shows no signs of needing replaced.

    There are some videos on the interent showing that because the apex of the string is below the nock that as the bow is shot the arrow nock slides down the string just a bit. Probably about 1/8" or so. I won't argue because I saw the slo-mo video for myself. My arguement is that a bow, being a simple machine, repeats itself time and time again, so ll you do is tune it accordingly and forget it. Don't let simple things like this mess with your mind.

    Some say that it takes time to wrap the rope around the string and attach it to the release hook. Yes it does. After a while the rope takes a set and has a bend where it wraps around the serving so is easier to hook up. It takes me about 2 seconds to hook mine up, and I don't even have to look at to see it. It's just a matter of doing it for so long (practice) that like a lot of things it becomes automatic.

    I'm toying with the idea of trying a new BT release this spring and can use it with a loop or release rope. I believe it's a True Ball Sweet Spot 3 finger. I have a case of terget panic and really need to get back to a BT release for th summer. I've been using a Cascade model 8 for about ten years and just need a change.

    Hope this answers your questions. If you have more then bring 'em on.

    Barry
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