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Thread: MOAB Limb Failure - AGAIN!!!!

  1. #21
    Senior Member alex's Avatar
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    Seeing these pictures i can tell that something is very wrong with your bow. I have a 2008 MOAB and there's almost no visible limb twist. You must fix this or you'll keep cracking the limbs.
    2008 Martin MOAB - 45-60#, set at about 51-53# / 55#" Perfect Line" compound/ 55# Mongol horsebow/ 45# "Perfect Line" takedown recurve/ 45# Bearpaw Grizzly hunter recurve/ 55# Samick Longbow Cheetah ... and several homemade bows

  2. #22
    Super Moderator bfisher's Avatar
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    From the pictures I'd say this is pretty indicative of how cables come off the idler wheel. I'm not sure but I tthink I recall that some idlers had a fairly sharp edge on them that led to excessive cable wear. This may have been changed so it's worth asking Joel about.

    The cables are pulled to the side more with the use of a CCS. I saw this on my 2010 Rytera Alien Z and made an alteration to the system. I removed the CCS and put a 1/8" washer between it can the riser at the front hole. This called for a longer screw but it changes the angle of the CCS and moves the rollers more in line with the string. It gives less clearance, but there is still plenty. I use 4" feathers and the feathers protrude under the CCS and only clear by about 1/16", but that doesn't bother me. Clearance is clearance. If you use high profile vanes like Blazers this might not work.

    Because of how much the cables are pulled to the side I'm not a great fan of the present CCS. I think it produces much more fletching clearance than necessary and put undue pressure on the limb tips as the bow is drawn and pressure increases on the cables and a sharper angle of how the string exits the cam/idler. It also leaves the owner no way to adjust for more or less clearance like the old dog-legged rod did.

    I have never seen a limb split where your appears to have. The splinter you talked about happens once in a while, but that's usually more toward the middle of the limb where it does most of it's bending. The other common spot is right in the bottom of the limb fork and I believe this is due to the twisting forces applied by the cables.

    I would really like to see some sort of balance like Martin had with the X system on their Fury, Nitrous, and Furious cams. With this system there are four cables, no cable guard, and NO side load on the limbs. The cams can be positioned so they and the string groove track right down the middle of the bow so any and all cam and live travel is just vertical and no side load whatsoever on the limbs. The problem with these is that people can't figure out how to load an arrow between the cables (especially with a broadhead). The arrow is actually loaded from the front and the nock is backed a few inches into the string, but I guess that's not quick enough for some folks or they are not smart enough to figure it out. Nor are they smart enough to see the benefits of such a system. It may not be a perfect solution, but nobody else has come up with anything any better as of yet.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member CaptJJ's Avatar
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    The geometry is a little different on the 2009 compared to the 08 because of the CCS. It doesn't look bad to me.

    Here's my idler, yes the string(served) is getting worn but the limb isn't twisted. Not sure why the factory string isn't served there.


    I also swapped the spaced on the cam end to bring the cam closer to the CCS side to help with lean.


    My next suggestion about the limbs breaking: has it been pressed improperly? Just throwing that out there.
    Recurves: 40lb X-200, 45 & 50lb Hunters, 45lb Mamba

  4. #24
    Senior Member CaptJJ's Avatar
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    Barry, I agree the CCS gives you more clearance than needed; might try the washer trick, thanks. The 2008 has an unadjustable cable guard but it doesn't pull as far as the roller.
    Recurves: 40lb X-200, 45 & 50lb Hunters, 45lb Mamba

  5. #25
    Super Moderator bfisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptJJ View Post
    The geometry is a little different on the 2009 compared to the 08 because of the CCS. It doesn't look bad to me.

    Here's my idler, yes the string(served) is getting worn but the limb isn't twisted. Not sure why the factory string isn't served there.


    I also swapped the spaced on the cam end to bring the cam closer to the CCS side to help with lean.


    My next suggestion about the limbs breaking: has it been pressed improperly? Just throwing that out there.
    I notice the little rubber cap is missing off your draw stop, too.
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  6. #26
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    CaptJJ

    No, the limbs have never been pressed improperly. I've never done it myself, and the latest limb failure, which happened yesterday, comes about 2 weeks after receiving it directly from Martin Warranty Repair. I don't suppose they would have pressed the limbs improperly.

    I appreciate the pics you posted. Perhaps my string is not at such a hard angle. I like the serving at the idler wheel. When I last shipped my bow to Martin, I included a 2-page letter which may not have been read or determined to be non-relevant. In that letter I mentioned the repair history, and all concerns I thought were impolrtant to diagnosing the problem (repeated limb failure). Among those concerns was the lack of serving at the idler wheel. I was optimistic that they would have done more than slap another top limb on. A comprehensinve overhaul may be what this bow needs.

    Thanks for your interest.

    LMJii
    2011 Firecat 360, 29", 65#, 386 @ 275 fps.

  7. #27
    Senior Member CaptJJ's Avatar
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    I'm not sure what to think, we are even shooting the same DL, weight and arrow weight.

    I really feel for you, if they fix it again it will be tough for you to have much confidence in the bow at this point.
    Recurves: 40lb X-200, 45 & 50lb Hunters, 45lb Mamba

  8. #28
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    I appreciate the sympathy. I guess you could say I already feel "gun shy" about my compound bow.

    I'll keep posting my experience for those who care to learn how this turns out.

    Thanks.
    2011 Firecat 360, 29", 65#, 386 @ 275 fps.

  9. #29
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    Default Update!

    Just spoke with Joel, who was understanding, and have received an RA # and a shipping label will be provided.

    After a brief discussion (I'm sure Joel was picking up on my frustration), neither of us could come to an acceptable reason as to why the limbs could possibly keep failing. That's no surprise. In fact Joel mentioned that no one else has had such an experience with the MOAB. Indeed, I mentioned the time I have spent conveying my experience on this Tech Forum and the concensus is that I have a very odd bow on my hands. Limb failure can and does occur, but there has never been any history of such terrible luck as I have had with this MOAB, let alone any other bow in the world!

    I'm hoping the shipping label gets here soon. I'm anxious to get it back to the factory and have them take another look. The last time I sent the bow in I included a 2-page letter detailing the repair history and my concerns with the bow. This time, I'll be updating the letter, and including a copy both with the bow, as well as a copy sent to Joel.

    By the way, it's got to be a tough job to be the front-line contact on the warranty calls. Although I feel I've been reasonable to deal with, considering I'll be going on my fourth set of limbs, I'm sure others are not so patient. Joel seems to do a good job diffusing the situation and getting to the necessary action.

    I'll keep posting accordingly. Many have sent PM's relaying their concerns. I appreciate the time that many have taken to contact me regarding my MOAB. Thanks for your interest.

    LMJii
    2011 Firecat 360, 29", 65#, 386 @ 275 fps.

  10. #30
    Super Moderator Arrow Splitter's Avatar
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    Hopefully this time Martin will find the problem so you won't have to deal with any more limb issues.

    A.S
    2011 Martin Firecat 400/NAP Apache Dropaway/Truglo Xtreme Sight/Custom 8" Stabilizer/Victory V6 Arrows
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