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Thread: My home-made TRG for older bows (like my 08 Firecat and possibly others)

  1. #1
    Senior Member Rockyhud's Avatar
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    Default My home-made TRG for older bows (like my 08 Firecat and possibly others)

    Well, after several months of shooting with the Martin TRG/SOS combo on my 08 Firecat I've come to the conclusion this system isn't usable long term on my bow and possibly others that don't have Nitro cams. The reason for saying this is I noticed accelerated cable wear on the down cable in the area it passed through the TRG that hadn't been there before the TRG. This might have to do with the way the cables wrap around the CAT cams being somewhat different than Nitro cams.

    About this same time I also found a thread on AT talking about a new product called the Tilt Tamer (http://www.tilttamer.com/). Upon viewing the photos and video it was quickly apparent this was designed to perform the same function as the TRG and BowTech's FLXGuard. The main difference is the Tilt Tamer uses a standard 3/8" guard rod with a machined aluminum block mounted near the end that positions a short second rod that's angled toward the string and uses a "standard" slide to contain the cables and control their movement toward centershot along the second rod as the string is drawn. The aluminum block also allows easy adjustment of the system to accommodate variances that are likely to be found from one bow to another.

    Looking at this further it appeared the second rod was angled at the same or nearly the same angle as the slot in the TRG. So, being one who looks for simple designs to resolve whatever, I decided I would see if I could use a solid 3/8" aluminum rod and bend it to match the angle and position as the TRG and its slot. Below are some photos of what turned out. Keep in mind it's not "pretty" in that there are a few surface nicks and scrapes caused by the bench vise I used to hold the rod while I bent it, mostly in the bend areas. In a nutshell I'm so far pleased with results.

    I used one idea from the Tilt Tamer in reversing the orientation of the slide as to which end the short and long slot usually are positioned. This is due to the angle of the rod end and how it affects the containment of the cables. Using this slide orientation positions the cables so they lay much more in the same plane with the cams instead of the down cable being pulling to the right of the up cable as the TRG does. Using my home-made TRG the cables are more in a straight line between cams at full draw than when I used the Martin TRG. This apparently reduced the torque applied to the riser and cams more than the Martin TRG as I also had to adjust my sight pin aperture significantly to the right as well as realign my No-Peep. This coincides with the information for the need to adjust the sight on a bow after installing the Tilt Tamer.

    I'm still tweaking my sight and No-Peep to get it right on but I'm close to the final position now. Shots from 20 and 30 yards are showing good and consistent grouping. A little more time getting my sight and No-Peep adjusted and I believe I'll be set. The last things I'll do will be to paint the front section flat black (leaving the section where the slides runs unpainted) and possibly put my Saunders Hyper-Glide Slide on in place of the OEM slide that came with my bow.
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    08/12 Martin Firecat Pro-X (29" DL, 67,5# DW), Nitro 3 cams, home-made bent cable guard rod, new VEMs, DS Advantage/HHA Pro-5519 front sight, No-Peep Sight Eliminator, Limb-Driver arrow rest, B-Stinger stabilizer, custom lower & upper STS with offset stops, G5 Head-Loc quiver on custom mounting bracket. Gold Tip Velocity XT300 arrows with Bi-Delta 2.5" Sharkstooth vanes and Grizzly single-bevel broadheads, 498 grains at 262 fps (22% FOC)

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    Senior Member Rockyhud's Avatar
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    Here are a few more pics I couldn't include in the original post. Also, in case anyone's wondering, yes, there is plenty of clearance for my vanes. Once the arrow has traveled forward enough so the vanes are in proximity of the slide or rod the slide and cables have been moved to the right so there's about a 1/4" or more clearance. The end of the rod is above and right of the shaft and will never be an issue for clearance.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    08/12 Martin Firecat Pro-X (29" DL, 67,5# DW), Nitro 3 cams, home-made bent cable guard rod, new VEMs, DS Advantage/HHA Pro-5519 front sight, No-Peep Sight Eliminator, Limb-Driver arrow rest, B-Stinger stabilizer, custom lower & upper STS with offset stops, G5 Head-Loc quiver on custom mounting bracket. Gold Tip Velocity XT300 arrows with Bi-Delta 2.5" Sharkstooth vanes and Grizzly single-bevel broadheads, 498 grains at 262 fps (22% FOC)

  3. #3
    SonnyThomas
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    Default My home-made TRG for older bows (like my 08 Firecat and possibly others)

    American ingenuity. You gotta love it. Well, Rocky, I hope it works out to the best.

    I think I put this in a thread once; At one time the standard guide rod was either made to flex or it was weak enough that it flexed. I'm thinking this was on my 1999 Golden Eagle Evolution or Pearson. Either 1999 or 2000 and switched to Hoyt in 2000 and remained with Hoyt until summer of 2010.

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    Very nice. Looks like you copied the angle of the martin slide. How much difference has it made and have you had to do alot of tweeking on it? Checked out the site you gave to see what this was all about. It looks like they just attached a block with an angle for a different slide to the stock slide. 70 bucks! Keep us up to date with how this is working for you and if there is a down side to this. Looks pretty simple but I'm sure it's not.
    2008-2011 Martin firecat pro-x, 70#, 29" dl. Monster bows dragon 60#, 29" dl.

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    Senior Member Rockyhud's Avatar
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    In concept and in photos it is pretty simple. The actual effort in fabricating this rod just took a little thought as to how and where to make the bends, a bench vise, a propane torch to slightly soften it for bending, a hack saw, metal file and pliers to make it a reality. I put the Martin TRG next to my rod to show that I did indeed try to follow the angle as closely as possible. I'll definitely report my findings as I get more time with it.
    08/12 Martin Firecat Pro-X (29" DL, 67,5# DW), Nitro 3 cams, home-made bent cable guard rod, new VEMs, DS Advantage/HHA Pro-5519 front sight, No-Peep Sight Eliminator, Limb-Driver arrow rest, B-Stinger stabilizer, custom lower & upper STS with offset stops, G5 Head-Loc quiver on custom mounting bracket. Gold Tip Velocity XT300 arrows with Bi-Delta 2.5" Sharkstooth vanes and Grizzly single-bevel broadheads, 498 grains at 262 fps (22% FOC)

  6. #6
    SonnyThomas
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    Default My home-made TRG for older bows (like my 08 Firecat and possibly others)

    GAHHHHH! I just notice your loop. Both knots are on the same side. Supposed to be one one way and one the other. Hey! If it works stay with it.

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    Senior Member Speedykills's Avatar
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    Very cool piece of work,looks good.But when i look at the trg it doesnt look like it could cause any wear on strings and cables.I wonder if its the material the strings are made of!.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedykills View Post
    But when i look at the trg it doesnt look like it could cause any wear on strings and cables.I wonder if its the material the strings are made of!.
    This has crossed my mind too. Maybe the trophy string material and the TRG plastic cause some kind of friction? Sorta like wetting your fingers to flip pages causes grip while normally water reduces grip.
    Firecat 400

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    Senior Member Speedykills's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MLN1963 View Post
    This has crossed my mind too. Maybe the trophy string material and the TRG plastic cause some kind of friction? Sorta like wetting your fingers to flip pages causes grip while normally water reduces grip.
    Its just really a modified cable guard,it looks like same kinda slick material,i do know for a fact some strings and cables are slicker than others.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Rockyhud's Avatar
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    Trophy string material? The cables and string I had in place with the Martin TRG was the original Martin Helix string set that came with the bow. My thinking is there might have been more tension on the down cable than it could stand due to it being pulled so far to the right (further away from centershot). That's why I said it may be the Nitro cams are different enough for the Martin TRG to work and why Martin considered it incompatible with older bows and cams. When I talked with Joel prior to buying the TRG/SOS that was his short and non-technical explanation for not advising its use. With the Tilt Tamer and hopefully my home-made TRG and the way the cables run through the slide, I think there's a better chance of this problem not presenting itself, at least not nearly as quickly as I seemed to experience with the TRG.

    Don't get me wrong, I think the TRG is a great idea and I love the simplicity of its design. It's just my experience with MY bow and cams that leads me to conclude it's likely not the best solution for bows that aren't designed for its use. And as I said, I'll definitely be reporting on how this works, good or bad, as I get more time with it. Needless to say I hope it works well so I can benefit from it and hopefully others can too if they decide to incorporate the idea.

    I know I got one of the d-loop knots on the wrong side. Shortly before installing the home-made TRG I also changed out the string and cables set and was working through tuning and syncing the cams and draw cycle as well as the new TRG so I wasn't too concerned with the d-loop at the time I installed it, but rest assured it will be tied correct/balanced once I get everything tweaked and working correct.
    08/12 Martin Firecat Pro-X (29" DL, 67,5# DW), Nitro 3 cams, home-made bent cable guard rod, new VEMs, DS Advantage/HHA Pro-5519 front sight, No-Peep Sight Eliminator, Limb-Driver arrow rest, B-Stinger stabilizer, custom lower & upper STS with offset stops, G5 Head-Loc quiver on custom mounting bracket. Gold Tip Velocity XT300 arrows with Bi-Delta 2.5" Sharkstooth vanes and Grizzly single-bevel broadheads, 498 grains at 262 fps (22% FOC)

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