My home-made TRG for older bows (like my 08 Firecat and possibly others)

[bfisher]

Hey Rocky, Next time you do this or anybody else that tries, instead of using pliers or vice grips to make the bends you could use a length of pipe and just slide it down over the end to the point where you want to make the bend. Being as the rods are 3/8" a piece of 3/8" pipe might work. If that's too tight then 1/2" pipe would work. Maybe something about 18" long for leverage.

[Rockyhud]

Thanks for the tip Barry. Also, at the request of MartinTracer, I measured the angle of the rod section nearest the string last night as well as the Martin TRG. Mine ended up being about 27-degrees as best I could measure without removing the rod and the Martin TRG was found to be 30-degrees.

[bfisher]

Another question. At rest just how much fletching clearance is there with the TRG. I haven't seen one yet, but the pics posted by some others suggests to me that there must be a lot of clearance as the cables seem to be being pulled at a pretty good angle. I wonder if this could be reduced as I see no need to pull cables any more than necessary. That's why I changed the angle of the CCS on my Alien Z. I didn't measure mine, but it looked like the cables were being pulled to the side at least a half inch more than necessary. IMO all this does is create more cam lean (limb twist) and friction within the system. Any amount this can be reduced would probably help with the cables tracking in the modules better, too.

Doesn't it make you wonder who designs these things? Here we are finding possible better solutions to their cable wear and cam lean issues and we aren't bow designers or engineers. Just dummies that shoot bows and can see with the naked eye what's going on.

[MLN1963]

Doesn't it make you wonder who designs these things? Here we are finding possible better solutions to their cable wear and cam lean issues and we aren't bow designers or engineers. Just dummies that shoot bows and can see with the naked eye what's going on.

Winner winner chicken dinner! We can all pitch in and start Forum Archery Company. It would be a pretty good product if we could get it to market!

[Rockyhud]

Barry, I never measured how much the Martin TRG is pulling the cables away from centershot but it definitely is more than a standard/conventional cable slide or my home-made TRG and slide. With the Martin TRG on my bow I took notice that the down cable was pulled out to what appeared to be at least in line with the centerline of the TRG guard rod, if not more. With my TRG both cables appear to be pulled very close to the same amount as they were using a conventional rod and slide.

The Martin TRG also pulls the down cable away significantly more than the up cable, at brace, which is why I speculated my down cable was showing wear that my up cable was not. Being that I was using my original string and cables at the time I wasn't sure if age and use played into that more so or not. With my TRG and slide the cables remain very close to the same plane and orientation as when using a conventional guard rod and slide, hence I expect not to see cable wear like I did with the Martin TRG. Only more shots through mine will provide the answer regarding mine.

[SonnyThomas]

When at rest there seems a ton of clearance. So it should be adjusted to clear the vanes during the draw cycle?

I don't know. If I adjust my offset guide rod for minimal clearance and it remains minimal throughout drawing and firing. I have consistency.

The TRG & TiltTamer offsets the cables, quite a bit at rest, draws them in near the bow string and then firing has them rapidly return to the greater offset at rest. Consistency, but angular thrust incorporated.

Okay, the TRG & TiltTamer does what to improve the bow? I mean, all I've read is eliminating cam lean and allow the sight pins to be more aligned to the bow string. Again, even Tim Gillingham said; "the shooter still has to make the shot."

[Destroyer]

Okay, the TRG & TiltTamer does what to improve the bow?

I'd like too know too.

all I've read is eliminating cam lean and allow the sight pins to be more aligned to the bow string.

Cam lean maybe but sight pins aligned better?

Are the cams the same as the previous year or are they specially designed for the trg?

[bfisher]

Sonny,

From my perspective you're right. With a conventional rod/slide configuration the cables are pulled a certain amount. With the TRG it would be variable through the draw cycle. Neither is a perfect system, but the bow can still be tuned for good arrow flight.
Same can be said for the CCS.

My main thoughts are that either system pulls the cables creating limb twist. It's not really the cam leaning. I think this limb twist is the root cause of most limb failures these days; especially when considering the stress the limbs are under with the speedier bows and shorter a2a bows as well. Get rid of as much limb twist as possible and limb failure would probably go away for the most part.

Now the hard part is engineering some kind of system, short of X cams, that can do this. After reading your post above it brought back memories of when I shot for XI. My bows had a conventional aluminum rod and I do recall seeing it bend in toward the string as the bow was drawn and the cables loaded up. At the time I thought this was a bad thing. Now I see differently. Then again those bows were from the mid 90's and before these super short monstrocities we have today.

I have the greatest respect for Tim Gillingham. I've met and talked with the man and his shooting achievements speak for themselves, but Martin isn't the only company starting to work on the isue so there has to be more to it than just tuning the bow. And I think it's the limb issues.

[Destroyer]

My bows had a conventional aluminum rod and I do recall seeing it bend in toward the string as the bow was drawn and the cables loaded up..

Opposite to the latest Bear Archery bows, goes the other way. I don't think it will solve the limb issue at all.

[SonnyThomas]

bfisher, yes, limbs are taking punishment. One has to look at the overall length of the limb and then see where the piviot point is. On the Martins, the Roto Cup. I mean you may have a 14" limb, but on some bows the limb piviots as much as 4 inches from the limb bolt. As such instead of flex/pressure exerted throughout the limb it is distributed over 10 inches.

If by the pictures in the 2011 catalog the ShadowCat has the shortest piviot point or flex/pressure over a longer length of limb.